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Author Topic: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant  (Read 4268 times)

andyh

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Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« on: July 24, 2015, 11:08:15 AM »

Hi All,


Looking for some advice and recommendations and hoping some of you can help :-) .


I've just picked up an old model boat which has been in storage at my parents place for several years.  The boat measures 1m long by 300mm wide and was built by an avid model maker who made all his own models.  The boat was fitted with an Irvine 61 marine engine which ran very well and was extremely fast - almost too fast! {-) .  The boat needs a bit of TLC but the engine is in perfect condition.  However I'm wondering whether to replace it with a smaller ic engine with pull start or go electric.  I've looked around the internet but am struggling to find a smaller ic marine engine with pull start.  The starting of the Irvine was always a pain.  I used a 12v electric starter with a V belt.  This meant carrying round starter, battery and all the other kit.  However I did love the sound of the Irvine engine and it was great fun.


I haven't looked into switching to an electric motor in detail and wasn't sure I'd get enough speed and running time from an electric motor.  I'm hoping some of you can offer some experience and recommendations for an electric replacement and what this would entail.


Alternatively can anyone suggest a smaller ic marine engine with pull start which I could install? 


Thanks for any help and advice. :-)
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canabus

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 12:25:58 PM »

Hi Andyh

I am using brushless motor in my deep vee and getting about 1/2 hour run time, also good top speed.
I am using a 5800mah 4S 60C Lipo battery( a good quality charger and a Lipo safely bag are required).
Also DO NOT leave the battery charging unattended( my charger auto shuts off and alarms when the battery is charged).
As for a motor I am using a Hobbyking 3648-1450kv(water cooled motor mounts are available)or you could use a 3660SL-1460kv water cooled motor.
As for an ESC (speed controller) I use the Hobbyking car 100A ones, they are easy to setup with the programme card.
As for a prop a 40-50mm x 1.4pitch 2 blade or a 37mm x 1.4 pitch 3 blade.
 
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andyh

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 07:56:44 PM »

Thanks for all that. Certainly food for thought if I go down the electric motor route.


Anybody any thoughts on a replacement ic engine?


I'm also thinking of getting the Irvine 61 running again. However I have no idea what modern fuel this engine will run on. Can anyone advise?
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 09:31:08 PM »

It's a sound sports engine which will run fine on modern fuels. It'll have recommendations  for castor based stuff but modern fully synthetics are fine if the engine is not abused. Something like a maximum of 10% nitro would suit it, I use Optifuel 12 on Irvines and other 'ringed' engines with no troubles.

Personally I'd stick with that engine, you don't have to open the throttle up after all, and it would suit a 1m boat. Its also only a matter of time before youll be able to open the throttle more anyway.

Only small engines have pull starters, and you'd be raking it to get the boat going, there's conflict there as the cooling is dependent in speed, so a small high revving engine may have overheating problems.
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 09:36:41 PM »

Btw, is the boat made from ply? It looks like a Lesro Javelin
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andyh

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 10:19:52 PM »

Thanks Jerry,

Really appreciate the reply and advice. I'll get the current setup running again. Thanks for the advice on fuel.

I believe it is constructed from plywood. The guy that built it was an avid builder and made lots of model boats and planes. I'm not sure if he used an existing design or his own. It was constructed back in the 80's or early 90's if that helps. It is very well built and is a joy to run. Very stable and fast.

Thanks again

Andy
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 11:03:37 PM »

I've had a couple of the Javelin's in the early eighties, one with an Irvine 40 which is still running well (the wngibe that is), and the other had a Webra 61. Yours is a little different from standard in the screen area, but then we all mod things, the Irvine engined boat ended up as a flybridge motor yacht %). The fwd hatch on yours is identical and the coaming shape the same. I'm pretty sure it's that. Ive got a picture of the Webra one somewhere, I'll dig it up.

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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2015, 11:37:54 PM »

Here you go:





You never know, maybe the same.


You mention that starting the Irvine was a pain, it really shouldn't be. Irvine's were 'sports' engines and starting should be straightforward. However that's a technique thing, having a 'knack' to get an engine going is usually limited to high performance stuff which can be very fickle, but basic universal methods will get this one going no problem.


When the time comes tip us a nod if it's not happening for you.



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andyh

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 08:45:44 AM »

Thanks Jerry. Yes it looks identical in most respects. It's good to identify the model as I had no idea whether it was a custom design or not.

I'll get cracking on putting it all together again.

There's a few bits I need to purchase as I couldn't locate the originals. Maybe you or someone else here could suggest a suitable supplier for these:

1. Missing the prop. Originally had a two blade, nylon I think. Prop shaft looks fine and seems to be M5 thread.
2.  Have the old starter but it's missing the cone for the V belt. I've looked online for a replacement cone but no luck so far.
3.  Could do with a new glow plug and spare. Any recommendations on these appreciated.
4.  The receiver battery is missing. The receiver gear has Macgregor JR on it. Think I need a 6v pack. However do I go for LIPO or NIMH?  Also need a charger. The transmitter (ESky 4 CH) is fine and seems to be working.
5.  Could do with replacing the radio box mounted in the back. Previously used a standard plastic accessory box but this was far from moisture proof. I found one here but it will be a tight fit: http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/radioboxes.htm. Any other ideas/suggestions. In addition I'm missing the control rod from servo to the engine. I'd previously made these myself from stainless steel rod. What's the recommendation these days?
6.  Need a good quality V belt for starting. The site linked to above has one. Any experience with this belt or other suggestions welcome.
7.  Finally I'll probably want to respray the whole boat once I'm up and running. Previously I used car cellulose paint in a spray gun which gave a lovely finish but over the years this has cracked in places - not really the best paint for plywood!  What's the recommendations for spraying a plywood hull?

Sorry for all the questions but the help & advice is much appreciated. I'm located near Gloucester so if anyone has any recommendations for good model shops close by that would also be appreciated.  :-)
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 10:11:10 AM »

I use Graupner hydro props. Intended for surface drive but work fine. Rounding the tips takes load off them if needed.
I've got couple of spare starter pulleys kicking around, I'll see what shaft diameter and drive mech they are later.
Glow plug starting point are OS no 8, or I like Alpha Engines N4's too.
NiMh receiver pack will be fine.
I have a few Fusion NX83 chargers, they charge both transmitter and receiver, and have peak detection on the receiver battery. I like peak detection so has rigged a couple of adaptor cables to that side for charging transmitters too.
That's a nice radio box, but a bit over the top for this boat. If you're happy to go for it fine, here's a similar one which may fit http://www.millpondmodels.co.uk/radio-box.html . Personally I'd make it as those boxes are intended for powerfull race boats, and a simple taped lid with drinks bottle top switch access will be fine.
Btw fit a failsafe if the radio doesn't have one. They only protect from a limited number of risks but they are cheap and a sensible addition.
SS rod linkages are a good way to go, but this boat has a long route from the Lazarette (aft space just inside the transom) where the radio box would be to the carb, so 3mm would be a minimum. You can use aero control rods in sleeves, but you'll need bellows on the carb end as moisture and oils getting into them makes them stiff. Keep the control link routes away from the flywheel, if they can connect from the forward side then all the better, a bowden cable may allow a loop around the front of the engine. Route the cable down the starboard side for a wider radius. Cycle cables can be used, but they are meant to be pull only and need spring assistance to work well over a long run. The idea is to keep space around the flywheel for easy belt location.
All of the toothed belts are pretty much the same. They will last ages so long as you keep them away from the exhaust.
Ply will expand and contract with humidity, even if totally sealed I find, the quality of sealing just alters how long it takes for the wood fibre to show through. Cellulose does have low solids and does shrink back over time, but if you're happy to use it then continue to do so. But, automotive acrylics are reasonably fuel proof and a bit more flexible than celly. Two pack is the ultimate but it needs a serious approach to health and safety.
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andyh

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 12:46:22 PM »

Thanks again Jerry.


Dumb question alert but with regards to props which hand am I looking for - Right or Left?  I can't remember the engine turn direction.  Also can you advise on a suitable diameter and whether a two or three bladed prop is better?


Can you also recommend a suitable bumper surround for when I renovate the boat.  I used a simple piece of plastic trim from a local hardware store previously.  Just wondering if there's something else available preferably in rubber?


Thanks again.
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2015, 01:53:24 PM »

Normal prop rotation is left hand, ie anticlockwise when facing forward. Two bladed.

Can't help you with the rubbing band, I too have sought suitable edge trims etc for such purposes but never found the right profile.

Btw the starter pulleys I have appear to be one metric, a 6mm (ish) hole stepped up to a 8mm, and an imperial  1/4" stepped up to  5/16". The latter has a slot for a pin through the shaft to drive it.
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andyh

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 05:58:55 PM »

Thanks again Jerry

The stud on my starter has an 8mm spindle with a short M6 (6mm) threaded portion. Think what you have may work. Which one would you suggest and how much do you want for it?

Andy
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tr7v8

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2015, 06:29:00 PM »

4.  The receiver battery is missing. The receiver gear has Macgregor JR on it. Think I need a 6v pack. However do I go for LIPO or NIMH?  Also need a charger. The transmitter (ESky 4 CH) is fine and seems to be working.

Officially Macgregor JR don't recommend 6V on their RX only 4.8V
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andyh

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2015, 07:03:22 PM »

Thanks for the clarification. I'll go for a 4 cell 4.8v.

Many Thanks.
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Jerry Hill

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Re: Advice on Model Boat Power Plant
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 11:06:53 PM »

You're welcome to the pulley, just pay postage. I've been at this game a long time and whenever a starter has burnt out I kept the pulleys for turning material, so it's just scrap to me. It's in good condition. PM me your addy, I can't say when I'd be able to post it yet, depends on access to a PO, but will be during the week.
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