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Author Topic: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia  (Read 17381 times)

Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2015, 08:34:34 PM »

Well the day job has been getting in the way!  But a little work has happened on the Freia.  Railings ----  this has taken some experimentation.  But hard brass wire has been the answer, superglued into holes in the deck and a wooden handrail fixed on - drill holes through thread it on and then superglue the hand rail in place a the right height and then wire rails superglued in place.  It is getting a little tidier - I might have to go back to some of the earlier bits to redo them.  It appears to be quite strong.  Half done and the other side to do.....

After the railing - lighting - warm white led's - its getting dark in the evenings and a lit up ship is a fine sight on the pond....

Brian60

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2015, 11:00:30 AM »

coming along nicely, is it your intention to have HO scale trains actually operate on it?

Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2015, 11:19:24 AM »

Technically, I suppose, it would be possible to run an HO train through the vehicle deck.  The rails run right through and if an electrical connection were needed that would be relatively simple to create.  However I don't have a model rail layout to connect to and at the pond side there might be issues with running model trains! 


But I was wondering whether next to create a floating dock with rail link span to dock into.  It would add an interest to steering and docking and the bow door is able to raise and lower by radio control.  I'm hoping that the Freia will be manoevrable forwards and reverse with twin props and tank type control on the TX.  There are no bow thrusters!  Got to be authentic!

warspite

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2015, 02:26:39 PM »

people run tanks on and off landing craft - so why not the train - a suitable landing jetty with the ability to run a train on and off the ferry will look good, as long as you don't do a telemark recreation, it would be a loss of a good model
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ballastanksian

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2015, 02:30:13 PM »

Would copper tape give you a cunningly easy way of transferring power from the linkspan to the ship to power your trains?
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2015, 03:42:10 PM »

Would copper tape give you a cunningly easy way of transferring power from the linkspan to the ship to power your trains?
Exactly my thought.  The rails between each of the hatches have an exposed end that could rest on copper tape.


However even easier - train ferries rarely carried the locomotives.  Freia can take exactly four passenger carrriages with about an inch to spare. All you need is a shunter on the link span to hook up and tow the carriages ashore.  The loco need never enter the bowels of the boat!


The link span will line up the rails with a pin made of dowel.  As the boat backs (or goes forwards) on to the linkspan it will engage with a wedge shape that will lift the linkspan into position as well as line the boat up exactly with the rails.  Train ferry docks were often exactly the width of the boat in any case making lining up even easier.  Twelve volt battery and controller on the dock should control the loco.  Whole thing might be about 8 feet long however! Might have to find my own corner of the pond to operate it!  However I'm getting ideas!


Telemark recreations - slightly worrying!

warspite

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2015, 04:26:57 PM »

depends if the pond is heavy water or not  %)
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Mad Scientist

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2015, 08:51:14 PM »

The ramps for loading railcars aboard are too light to bear the weight of a locomotive, IIRC.
I recall seeing a photo of a rail ferry dock where some old flatcars were used as 'spacers' to keep the locomotives away from the ramp. - Tom
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2015, 09:24:15 PM »

Even better!  No need to electrify the rails of the vehicle deck!

ballastanksian

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2015, 10:59:17 PM »

If going for such a plan where the Loco collects the rake (railway term for a number of coaches joined together:O) you might need a way to brake them so that:

The Loco does not drive onto the ferry and lose power thus ruining your activity.

Or:

The Loco pushes the coaches through the back end of your model boat by pushing the other ramp down or worse, breaking it {:-{

Or: Thirdly

Or: The Loco pushes the ferry away from the Linkspan toppling into the water at the same time.

If you could lock the Linkspan in place and also work out a way of braking the coaches then you will have a fun spectacle.

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warspite

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2015, 11:18:53 PM »

if the doors strong enough, you could back the boat upto the jetty, which has a recess to accept it so it is flat to the jetty, inside the boat you could have a moving ballast weight where as it moves towards the ramp it provides the force necessary grip to the dock, plus as the model truck fraternity has in one of the youtube vids a pair of pins that locate into the ramp painted as traffic cones they would not look out of place, doesnt matter if the loco over runs - the ramps on the jetty, plus as in most rail sets the last piece of track is isolated temporarily, if the loco is long enough the rear wheels are still on the isolated track and the front on the boat, when it comes time to reverse the train, the isolated track is set for reverse and the train reverses. decoupling could be on the boat with a plate between the tracks and lifted with a servo.
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2015, 05:51:07 PM »

Loads of great ideas here!


I feel simplest is best.  The front visor of the ship is heavy.  It would work as a buffer no problem so no train will be pushed right through and into the Swannie Ponds!  However if the ship comes in bow first there is no barrier as yet to stop a train ending up in the drink off the stern.  I need some sort of barrier here.  Maybe something can be fitted that is in place except when link span is attached.  Some model railway level crossing gates work like that I beleive.  A small wire lever could raise and lower a barrier.


There will be a vertical pin on the bow and stern of the ship that the link span can attach to.  My first thoughts had been to simply use the pin to line up on the link span which would have a clip under it rather like a cupboard door catch, but I take the point that a loco could push the rake of railway vehicles into the ship and push the ship away from the dock so some sort of lock is needed.


How about lowering the link span on to the pin on the ship after the ship has entered the dock.  This could be done mechanically with a small electrical or hand powered winch, as the dock is always going to be alongside and the controls for the loco will be on shore as well.  It would need to move only a small distance as we don't have to deal with the tides! 


If a flat car is used between the loco and the carriages on the ship, no need to even electrify the linkspan.  That will provide an isolater to prevent the loco dropping into the pond ( we know all about that in Dundee with the Tay Bridge disaster of 1879)


As for uncoupling there could be a fixed uncoupler at both ends of the vehicle deck on the ship - Hornby used to do a raised ramp that even you kept moving the train stayed coupled and if you stopped the coupling undid.  No need to have any mechanical operation at all! 


Well I still need to finish the ferry first!


Attached I hope two small drawings.  One of the dock from above showing how the ship will be held in place as it docks forwards or astern and the second a scheme of how the linkspan will lock onto the ship.

ballastanksian

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2015, 09:13:02 PM »

Brilliant news Edmund! It sounds like your ideas and chin stroking has come up with some sound plans.

I look forward to the Ship being completed now. :-))
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Brian60

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2015, 09:25:53 PM »

Way too much overthinking of electrifying track here. Have a 'dead' track and mount a suitable battery inside the loco. Yes I know you can't do it with a Hornby loco, but you can buy suitable plastic or metal kit loco's that you could motorise for such an undertaking. With its own receiver you could even use r/c transmitter to operate it........
http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/knightwing_metal.htm

warspite

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2015, 09:39:34 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLfD6Ushq0 - this I hope links to the video I mentioned, seems a good way of doing it - we know its tried a tested  O0
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2015, 09:53:23 PM »

Very impressive! I could see the traffic cones that lock the ramps.


Well I can see I'll have to building a whole dock yard!  And it all began with just a ship!


Still researching the Freia and have just discovered that it is regarded as almost first roll on roll off car ferry.  Alongside the train track are two car garages.........   Now don't get started everybody.....   I'm definitely not motorising minature cars ......   though it might be a use for the chikdren's scalelectric gathering dust in the attic....

Capt Podge

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2015, 11:27:31 PM »

That youtube video is absolutely brilliant - and it's got me thinking.........hhhhhmmmm. %)
 
(Tug Kenny's gonna love that one) O0
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2015, 07:14:47 PM »

Still work to do but beginning to look like the business.  I might even get her on the water on Sunday on our pond.  Still tidying to do, but much of the fittings are in place.  Crew and passengers are still ashore waiting for a splash of paint to liven them up.  Wiring of lighting is still to be completed - I was having problems soldering - I need a small soldering iron.  And there is detail particularly around the bridge.  Nothing done about a dock yet but hey lets see if I can steer her first!

I've also attached a couple of photos of the real ship. Bear in mind she was built in 1936 and the last picture is of her sailing out of Ischia in Italy in 2007.  Much bashed about and you perhaps wouldn't have realised that she was the same ship.  Intriguing how they felt the need to weld a piece of metal onto her bow to give the semblance of it being raked.....

warspite

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2015, 12:13:32 AM »

Just a note, the video I referenced, in it the ship appears to be partially guided loosely with maybe a wire hidden under water as it moves about at first and then appears to be guided to the dock, any method you come up with a dock could have a pusher bar hidden underwater that pushes side inwards to gently centralise the vessel, i.e. as the stern pushes the bar its connected like a scissor mechanism to a pair of long bars that push each side, all underwater hidden from view, will have to sketch it to explain the idea.
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2015, 09:54:06 AM »

The end of the ferry in the video is wedge shaped and appears to fit into an identical shape in the dock so as it approaches it locks into place.  The video ferry must also be working on the chain ferry principal.  I always used to be intrigued by these on the south coast of England.


But I like your idea of a guiding wire that as the boat approaches the dock helps it find the right position.  However the ferry doesn't have to approach the dock at 90 degrees.  If the boat comes alongside then we only need a mechanism to hold the outer side of the ship in place.  The link-span for the rails is then a set distance from the  dock side and automatically is in the right place to connect for the rails.


Most pictures I have seen of rail ferries docking seem to show that the ferry comes into a very tight dock that comes round both sides of the ship.  The ship has straight sides as well so as it enters the dock it is lined up with the link-span to within a few inches.  A locking pin on the link-span then does the fine aligning of the rails.  This would be the easiest way to model this, and with a wider mouth to the dock that narrowed to the exact width of the boat, docking would be very easy to demonstrate, even when steering in reverse!

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2015, 04:41:40 PM »

Here is the sketch I thought might work to 'guide the vessel in' without it looking like the docks closed up around the hull, if the pincers are below the water therefore hidden when you push the stern against the centre arrow it pushes the pincers together, they interact with the hull sides an should in theory push the boat central.   :D
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Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2015, 04:43:07 PM »

It's a beautiful day - almost the nicest day all year for sunshine and warmth! 

So a quick sea trial just to see if she floats the right way up.  Don't want a Poseidon Adventure!

Ballasted in the test tank, while the wife was out!  3 kg of lead sheet required and a lead acid battery.

Connect up the radio gear and to the pond, wife taking the photos. 

Very nice turning circle with twin props.  Good reverse control and the bow door comes up gently and slowly.  Beautiful!  Twin engines and tank controls takes a little getting used to but she can turn on the spot slowly with one engine forwards and one astern.  Normal steering she can turn in two boat lengths with reduced revs on inner engine.

More photos later.

Edmund

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2015, 04:46:12 PM »

Here is the sketch I thought might work to 'guide the vessel in' without it looking like the docks closed up around the hull, if the pincers are below the water therefore hidden when you push the stern against the centre arrow it pushes the pincers together, they interact with the hull sides an should in theory push the boat central.   :D
That looks great!  This will be the next step now I know the boat floats!!

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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2015, 07:48:36 PM »

Gorgeous! You have definitly got the look, and she floats really well.
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Re: 1:72 scale model Danish train ferry, the Freia
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2015, 10:48:53 PM »

Hello Edmund!
Beautiful ferry, really nice work there!
Some discussion here about your linkspan. I just started a thread on the subject under "Model boating". Perhaps some more ideas for you there.
All the best!
Hama
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