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Author Topic: VW scandal  (Read 31235 times)

essex2visuvesi

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2015, 11:15:09 AM »

I organised an electric car motor show last year - it was very interesting.

Some dealers were very helpful and supplied cars and staff to demo (BMW, Renault, Mitsubishi & Nissan) - some dealers just supplied cars (Vauxhall/GM) - some dealers couldn't be bothered (most notably VW) even though they had electric demonstrators at their dealership - other dealers were interested but had no demonstrators (Toyota - they only have customer's cars) and other manufacturers wanted to attend but their only demonstrators were elswhere (Tesla)
Other's advertised electric cars but admitted they cannot sell them (Audi)
Most interesting was Citroen & Honda who denied they made electric cars!

I've done a lot of research into the tech and it seems that most of the scare stories are false (old wive's tails) just like when catalytic converters were introduced.
Most of the advances in the last few years are from the software looking after the braking/charging/power delivery - not the battery capacity.
Also, there is a trick that can rejuvinate the batteries back to 95% capacity when their performance starts to drop off after about 8 years driving. This will be part of the dealer service protocol.

The electric cars with the range-extenders (BMW i3 & Chevy Volt) have unlimited range - they just switch to petrol or diesel when the battery is used up which recharges the battery on the move - the fossil fuel motor is not normally connected to the wheels (although the Volt has a very complicated system that can allow the engine to connect to the wheels).

The Hybrids just drop back to fossil fuels when their batteries run down.

For 90% of drivers, an electric car would be more than adequate.


Isn't the VX Ampera another that can charge on the go? (uses the same tech as the Volt)
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plastic

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2015, 11:23:07 AM »

The Ampera is a re-badged Chevy Volt - very odd to drive - the engine periodically starts & stops and runs at constant revs charging the battery while you drive and change speed and start & stop - I suppose you get used to it. Nice car.
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sparkey

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2015, 11:37:02 AM »

 :-)) I agree with plastic,I drove a volt for a week round London last year and was very impressed with it,so easy to drive,comfortable and the performance was really good,I found it less stressful because it was so easy to drive and park,this is the way to go and I think the car manufacturers know it that is why they are investing so money in this technology,so I think the days of the I.C. engine are numbered and the world moves on,don't get me wrong I like old technology I have 2 steam boats and a I.C. boat which I love but I would not to drive round London in a steam car,the only criticism of the car I had was it was too quiet and people walked in front of the car a lot because they didn't hear it coming, so you use the horn a lot more.........Ray. :-))
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plastic

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2015, 11:51:03 AM »

:-)) I agree with plastic,I drove a volt for a week round London last year and was very impressed with it,so easy to drive,comfortable and the performance was really good,I found it less stressful because it was so easy to drive and park,this is the way to go and I think the car manufacturers know it that is why they are investing so money in this technology,so I think the days of the I.C. engine are numbered and the world moves on,don't get me wrong I like old technology I have 2 steam boats and a I.C. boat which I love but I would not to drive round London in a steam car,the only criticism of the car I had was it was too quiet and people walked in front of the car a lot because they didn't hear it coming, so you use the horn a lot more.........Ray. :-))

The only thing I didn't like about the Volt was the weird centre console - a bit like a microwave control panel. Other than that, it's brilliant. (23k on the road)
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roycv

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2015, 11:51:19 AM »

Hi steam cars are very good on emissions at the aft end, shame about the chimney!

Roy
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malcolmfrary

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2015, 11:52:52 AM »


Saw this.  Couldn't resist.
Quote
Volkswagen have announced a new diesel car offering lowest-ever emissions.
Regulators have queried the use of the petrol car towing it.
Batteries have never, and quite probably never will be, a dense enough form of energy storage to give adequate range for use on a daily basis unless the only journeys are going to be a fairly short commute.  Then there are the problems of recharge time and life expectancy of the actual battery.
Hybrids are only a sort of answer.  You have to lug around a heavy battery and effectively a portable generator and its fuel supply which is unlikely to ever be as efficient as a mains supply.  It can't be as efficient as a purely fuel installation because of the extra weight being hauled, even if it is easier to drive and the electric drive doesn't pollute in the right circumstances.  Once the treasury has figured out how to tax the energy supplied from charging points, external charging will stop being a cheap option.
Perhaps the idea of "standard" battery packs that can be changed rapidly at "re-energising" stations might catch on if the industry ever gets trusted enough to let us swap our existing battery for another part way through a journey in exchange for perfectly good money.  Unfortunately, the commercial world is populated by box tickers whose only concern is how to put ticks in boxes, not providing a service that will allow a box to be ticked.  The powers that be at the top have never known the difference, and, as long as they get their obscene rewards for ticking boxes and a big golden handshake when caught out, they will never see the need.
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plastic

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2015, 12:00:09 PM »

Hi steam cars are very good on emissions at the aft end, shame about the chimney!

Roy

My uncle has a huge Stanley Steamer - late model - VERY fast & powerful. Al Capone's favourite car until petrol cars came of age.
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roycv

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2015, 12:01:49 PM »

Hi Plastic can he be persuaded to come to our exhibition?  Hope to see you there this weekend?
Roy
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plastic

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2015, 12:09:23 PM »

Saw this.  Couldn't resist.Batteries have never, and quite probably never will be, a dense enough form of energy storage to give adequate range for use on a daily basis unless the only journeys are going to be a fairly short commute.  Then there are the problems of recharge time and life expectancy of the actual battery.
Hybrids are only a sort of answer.  You have to lug around a heavy battery and effectively a portable generator and its fuel supply which is unlikely to ever be as efficient as a mains supply.  It can't be as efficient as a purely fuel installation because of the extra weight being hauled, even if it is easier to drive and the electric drive doesn't pollute in the right circumstances.  Once the treasury has figured out how to tax the energy supplied from charging points, external charging will stop being a cheap option.
Perhaps the idea of "standard" battery packs that can be changed rapidly at "re-energising" stations might catch on if the industry ever gets trusted enough to let us swap our existing battery for another part way through a journey in exchange for perfectly good money.  Unfortunately, the commercial world is populated by box tickers whose only concern is how to put ticks in boxes, not providing a service that will allow a box to be ticked.  The powers that be at the top have never known the difference, and, as long as they get their obscene rewards for ticking boxes and a big golden handshake when caught out, they will never see the need.

You're a bit out of date.

Look at Flow-Cell batteries - works the same as a fuel-cell but you just need 2 tanks of electrolytes that can be drained & refilled in a couple of minutes. The drained electrolytes can be revesed back using locally generated electricity (solar or wind) and then re-used again.

There's info here:
http://www.gizmag.com/900-hp-supercar-flow-battery/31091/pictures

http://aetherforce.com/electric-car-powered-by-salt-water-920-hp-373-milestank/
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plastic

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2015, 12:10:14 PM »

Hi Plastic can he be persuaded to come to our exhibition?  Hope to see you there this weekend?
Roy

Sorry Roy - he's in Manchester and the boiler is being refurbed at the moment.  I'll be coming along.  :-))
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Jonty

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2015, 02:35:11 PM »

  I wonder how long it will be before HMRC realise that they have been gypped out of squillions in company car tax? Will they look to the manufacturer or the owner?

  It's significant that this was uncovered by the Americans; EU agencies are far too much in the pocket of big business. That's the main reason cars are so complicated, so heavy, and so expensive.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2015, 02:52:13 PM »

Yes, it's a real can of worms isn't it but the owners will have acted in good faith when buying the cars so I think the manufacturers will have to take the hit. Could take years to resolve though, especially if other manufacturers have been doing the same. It almost defies belief that those responsible at VW thought they could get away with it.
Colin
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Netleyned

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2015, 03:45:39 PM »

If you have bought a diesel fuelled car in the past 10
Years phone 0123 9876 543 to be awarded compensation
and a new petrol car.
Diesels are NOT us   :D :D :D

Ned
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mrlownotes

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2015, 04:22:41 PM »

Just seen the  new used car company :-
webuyanycar_exceptvw.com

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inertia

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2015, 07:15:57 PM »

  I wonder how long it will be before HMRC realise that they have been gypped out of squillions in company car tax? Will they look to the manufacturer or the owner?

  It's significant that this was uncovered by the Americans; EU agencies are far too much in the pocket of big business. That's the main reason cars are so complicated, so heavy, and so expensive.

HMRC don't even know or care what the difference between diesel and petrol is.

The "department" comprises of a Grade 3 Secretary who wants either a Knighthood or a CBE before he retires; an Assistant Secretary who wants to be a Grade 3 Secretary; a Senior Executive Officer who would like to be an Asst Sec if he knew what the salary scale was, but is a little wary of the job description and the possibility of having to move from Harpenden; a Higher Executive Officer who hates the SEO and spends most of his time in the pub; an Executive Officer whose wife is expecting their third child and who just wants to get out of London, and an Assistant Officer (Pay Maximum about 22K) who actually runs the whole Department from her i-Phone while cheating on her husband.

None of these people have ever heard of VAT or Excise Duty.

None of them owns or drives a Volkswagen diesel car.

Some of these people have lunch with CEOs and agree that 6B of fraudulently-witheld tax isn't really payable.........................

Been there. Retired exactly nine years ago next Wednesday.

Do I miss it? Have a guess.

DM

(See above for my opinion of capitalism - Marx had much the same idea. It just took too long for him to see it happen)
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malcolmfrary

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2015, 09:52:55 AM »

You're a bit out of date.

Look at Flow-Cell batteries - works the same as a fuel-cell but you just need 2 tanks of electrolytes that can be drained & refilled in a couple of minutes. The drained electrolytes can be revesed back using locally generated electricity (solar or wind) and then re-used again.

There's info here:
http://www.gizmag.com/900-hp-supercar-flow-battery/31091/pictures

http://aetherforce.com/electric-car-powered-by-salt-water-920-hp-373-milestank/
Not that much out of date - flow cells are OK for large static applications, but are very much at the early development stage for automobile use.  Reversing the electrolytes is the equivalent of recharging, times will certainly be long as effectively energy is being transferred.  The electrolytes can be renewed by replacement, probably quite rapidly, but like any alternative fuel, infrastructure is needed to provide enough places where this can happen during a journey. 
Down at the bottom of - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery - there is a pro/con section worth reading as an antidote to enthusiastic press releases by budding developers looking for investors. 
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inertia

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2015, 10:14:44 AM »

It was Irish Dave who reminded me yesterday of Karl Marx's remark about capitalism eating itself, while we enjoyed a few pints and yet again set the world to rights. I later went looking for this quotation and stumbled across this. http://saintlaika.com/2011/08/12/capitalism-will-eat-itself/  It isn't in the least bit political but it certainly gets close to the heart of what's wrong with the world today, as illustrated by the avarice and deceit which has prompted VW's downfall.
Worth a read, chaps.
DM
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Colin Bishop

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2015, 10:40:02 AM »

 An interesting piece. Just demonstrates that almost anything carried to extremes is ultimately destructive and that there is no limit to the extent of individual human greed.
Colin
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tobyker

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2015, 11:44:24 PM »

And haven't Vauxhall binned the Ampera because they couldn't sell any? I thought that it was the best solution - a petrol engine running at its most efficient speed/load to charge the batteries. However, just like the sensible motorcycles I used to buy, nobody did.
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dave301bounty

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2015, 04:29:47 PM »

V W on GEORGES St have cleaned off all their V W ,sign of the times ,somethings afoot and the big garage in the dingle has had his emission testing machine re aligned .makes y,think , diesel cheaper ,o yes .
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Mark T

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2015, 04:45:20 PM »

dave301bounty

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2015, 07:27:40 PM »

 %% {-)
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dreadnought72

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2015, 09:28:11 PM »

Here's HMS Invincible and HMS Inflexible at the Falklands burning VW coal....





Andy
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dreadnought72

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2015, 09:29:41 PM »

Hmmm. So good they burned it twice?
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: VW scandal
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2015, 11:40:50 PM »

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