Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Down

Author Topic: VW scandal  (Read 31203 times)

Perkasaman2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: North East
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2015, 01:54:08 PM »


It's now known that only five million of the eleven million were Volkswagen-branded cars. The remainder is comprised of  2.1m Audis, 1.2m Skodas, 700,000 Seats, and 1.8m light commercial vehicles. What a mess
Logged

sparkey

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,225
  • I think I am as mad as I think I am then I am mad
  • Location: wandsworth
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2015, 02:16:44 PM »

 ;) A mate of mine works for a well know legal firm,he was telling me that the PPR claims are now drying up and that this is like money from heaven for them,he says should keep them going for a few years,lets hope VW have deep pockets.....Ray. ;)   
Logged
My boats are all wood like my head fluctuat nec mergitur

Perkasaman2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: North East
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2015, 02:48:02 PM »

It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good.  %)  There is huge competition between the motor manufacturers and all of the emissions technology will be jealously guarded with patents and copyright. This may explain VAG's  expediency in using the software cheat.
Logged

bj

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2015, 08:24:02 PM »

Never mind the emissions issue, has anyone actually achieved the manufacturers published MPG  fuel figures? The published figures from any manufacturer are surely recorded by the same methods as the emissions.
Logged

boneash

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
  • In an actual war zone there are 2 types of ships,
  • Location: Kent UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2015, 07:38:05 PM »

I puzzle as to what tells the 'brain' to go into 'TEST' mode so that it can change the mixture, injection time, whatever.

Maybe having the sniffer pipe rammed up the exhaust

        having the front and back wheels doing different speeds, on the brake test
         
            having the engine running with the bonnet open
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,807
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2015, 07:40:18 PM »

The tests are done on a rolling road so only two wheels are rotating and the steering wheel isn't moving.
Logged

boneash

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
  • In an actual war zone there are 2 types of ships,
  • Location: Kent UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2015, 08:20:15 PM »

The test I was referring to is our MOT test,not the  tests proving what tax band they are claiming , which is the one I imagine you  mean Colin.
If the figures are false for the emission how come the cars are passing the MOT, or is that flawed too?
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,807
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2015, 08:48:54 PM »

I see what you mean, I think you are right in surmising that the tests are different but it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think that MOT tests are standardised across countries in the same way as the original manufacturer emission tests. In the UK MOTs the emissions are not checked under load as far as I am aware. No doubt someone can enlighten us further.

Colin
Logged

Mad Scientist

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2015, 10:01:21 PM »

According to someone who is a U.S. auto industry expert (and shall not be named here), it is alleged  :police: that VW used an engine control system to determine if the engine was bring tested, and, if so, started a special program designed to make the engine emissions-compliant. Then, after the testing, the program would return to the 'usual' settings.

So, an engine destined for the U.S. market engine would test 'clean', but would revert to a higher-mileage (and less 'clean' setting) when not being tested. <*<

Given that it's a software issue, it's possible that VW used different programs for different types of testing in various jurisdictions.

Tom
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,134
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2015, 10:26:35 PM »

from what I heard on the radio this morning, the ECU monitors the power steering and if it receives no input for a set period of time it goes into naughty mode
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

RAAArtyGunner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,846
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2015, 10:53:21 PM »


This is how VW came unstuck.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/world-business/how-many-deaths-did-volkswagens-deception-cause-in-us-20150928-gjwyhl.html

There is talk about VW dumping cars in Oz as our emissions laws are lax, almost not existant.
Logged
Gunna build those other boats one day.

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,297
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2015, 02:40:51 AM »

Probably the best explanation of how they did it.


Archer, the former managing director of the UK’s Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership and non-executive director for the government’s Renewable Fuels Agency, said the scandal could spread into petrol cars and CO2 levels. “It is probably not limited to diesel and not limited to emissions,” he added.
The devices are thought to work by injecting more urea – an exhaust fluid – into the car when it is being tested. This limits nitrogen oxide emissions. The car detects it is being tested because devices such as the anti-collision systems have to be turned off when it is in the laboratory. The extra urea is not injected into the car when it is on the road because it would quickly run out.
Archer claims European tests are more open to abuse because they are conducted before the car goes into mass production and by companies that have been paid by the carmakers. These testing companies have been verified by regulators in each country, such as the Vehicle Certification Agency, but in the US the tests are conducted by an independent body.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/21/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-sends-shares-in-global-carmakers-reeling
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Umi_Ryuzuki

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,171
  • Location: PDX, OR USA
    • Models and Miniatures
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2015, 07:16:44 AM »

In the US, the testing stations don't typically use the sensor in the tailpipe method anymore.
When you pull into the testing station, a technician plugs a computer interface cable
into a socket under the dash. Like your computer sensing a USB, or Thumb drive, the car
probably senses that an interface cable has been connected, and reacts to that connection,
and goes into testing mode by lowering the fuel air mixture ratios to burn cleaner.
Or inject the DEF fluid into the exhaust.

I kind of wonder how often people have to refill their DEF reservoirs...


sparkey

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,225
  • I think I am as mad as I think I am then I am mad
  • Location: wandsworth
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2015, 07:29:10 AM »

 {:-{ It looks like Ford and Fiat may also be involved,VW have to recall 11.2 million cars at a cost of 4.2 billion pounds and claims could cost £3000 each work that out x 11.2 million cars and we are not talking loose change,the amount of money involved could bankrupt big companies like VW and change the car industries for ever and this just on diesel cars as they are are saying the petrol ones have also been doctored,if I owned a car dealership I would be a little bit worried about my future as no one knows where all this will end.......Ray {:-{   
Logged
My boats are all wood like my head fluctuat nec mergitur

GAZOU

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,099
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: ROCHEFORT FRANCE
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2015, 09:03:45 AM »


After gone deeper into investigation the culprit was found.

It is the dog of the night watchman

An examination proved that it had fleas which jumped everywhere
Logged

jarvo

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Etherow model boat club
  • Location: Bredbury Stockport Cheshire
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2015, 10:10:27 AM »

Just a thought here chaps, as these vehicles have been proven to have higher emitions than claimed, this could be fraud on the part of the driver!!!!! they are paying road tax at a lower level so are getting a cheaper tax band than the car is capable of achieving. What now???? Back taxes as well as possible criminal action!!!!


Mark
Logged
Tugs are for pulling

jarvo

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Etherow model boat club
  • Location: Bredbury Stockport Cheshire
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2015, 10:17:07 AM »

Umi
A lot of people have disconected their DEF systems, this is ok? till the vehicle comes up for its MOT it is an instant fail because it is non compliant. The fuid in the EU is called Adblu, and is about £5 per liter, Mercs have a replacement tank about £100 to fit. My Truck uses about 1 liter per 100 khm all adding to the cost


Mark
Logged
Tugs are for pulling

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,807
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2015, 03:57:51 PM »

Quote
I kind of wonder how often people have to refill their DEF reservoirs...

As the main constituent is apparently Urea it may be possible to refine your own... %)

However I am now even more confused. My understanding is that the fluid is intended to combine with the NOX emitted to make it safe. A DPF is what it's name says, a filter for particulates which are composed of soot from unburnt fuel and not a gas as is NOX.

Many cars don't have the fluid tank. For example the Mazda 3 does but the Mazda 6 doesn't. Can anyone actually explain the relevant processes as opposed to guessing?

Motorists themselves will not be liable as they bought their vehicles in good faith based on the assurances of the manufacturer. They may however suffer if the cars are remapped to reduce emissions with the result the power and MPG are reduced.

Colin
Logged

Perkasaman2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: North East
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #93 on: October 01, 2015, 04:27:41 PM »

This AA article is a good basic primer:


http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html


I tend to conclude that these Filters are a good money spinner for the dealerships.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,807
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #94 on: October 01, 2015, 04:41:52 PM »

Yes, that does give a useful rundown but it doesn't mention NOX levels which seems to be causing the most concern. The fluid appears to be used to burn off the soot. The Mazda 6 and other cars inject fuel into the cylinder on the exhaust stroke as an alternative method of combustion. So what is it that reduces the NOX gas emission?

Also interesting to see that removal of your DPF could invalidate your insurance, I doubt if many people have considered that.

Colin
Logged

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,984
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2015, 04:48:26 PM »

I would have thought it obvious that the motor insurers
would not insure a vehicle that is illegal to use on the road.

Ned
Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,807
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #96 on: October 01, 2015, 05:52:36 PM »

Quote
I would have thought it obvious that the motor insurers
would not insure a vehicle that is illegal to use on the road.

Quite right, but it appears that many people are simply crossing their fingers and ignoring the problem as removing the DPF costs maybe £200-£300 while replacement is upwards of a grand. A lot of people don't bother with holiday insurance either on the basis that 'it won't happen to me' but it does happen to some and that could indeed be you!

Colin
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,134
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #97 on: October 01, 2015, 06:14:06 PM »

Quite right, but it appears that many people are simply crossing their fingers and ignoring the problem as removing the DPF costs maybe £200-£300 while replacement is upwards of a grand. A lot of people don't bother with holiday insurance either on the basis that 'it won't happen to me' but it does happen to some and that could indeed be you!

Colin


It's the same as running a petrol car with a Decat Pipe..... Illegal. IF you get caught
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,807
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #98 on: October 01, 2015, 06:29:11 PM »

And you are most likely to get caught if the car is in an accident and found to be unroadworthy - just when you need to call on your insurance!

Colin
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,134
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: VW scandal
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2015, 06:37:46 PM »

And you are most likely to get caught if the car is in an accident and found to be unroadworthy - just when you need to call on your insurance!

Colin


Exactly!
Insurance companies will look for any excuse not to pay..... but that's for another thread
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Up