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Author Topic: HMS Victory  (Read 12740 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2015, 08:18:54 PM »

Went down to Portsmouth today, weather grey and dull. The new paint on Victory is actually a sort of cream colour but under some lights I can see why it might assume a pinkish tint. It looked what it was supposed to be today, yellow ochre mixed with white. You can see the difference between the old and new colours in the photos below. I think I preferred the old colour even if it was not strictly historically accurate.

I also toured Monitor M33 which is now open to the public. A lot of money has been spent on her and she is now very much worth visiting. Although a 'simple' ship she is full of interesting detail and information and you can actually touch the aft 6 inch gun which was carried by HMS Canada at the Battle of Jutland - a real historical connection there!

Colin
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2015, 09:28:13 PM »

Good photos Colin, I saw Victory when I was in the dockyard in July and I actually I think it doesn't look as bad as people seem to think, when you really think about it she's in remarkable condition for a 250 year old wooden ship, I worked at Camper & Nicholson's until they closed down and we did a lot of work on her, including renewing the main deck calling, renewing all the cannon ramrod's and the racks in the powder room also all the dummy powder charges on them, they are all filled with fine plastic pellets, very much enjoyed working on her. :-))
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2015, 10:05:35 PM »

Must have been very interesting to work on her given all the historical associations. The photo below was taken when she was last fully rigged.

Colin
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Unsinkable 2

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2015, 07:44:19 AM »

IT WAS GOING TO BE BINNED?........ Some people have all the luck, glad you saved her Joe can't wait to see what you do...... Good luck. U2
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2015, 02:31:36 PM »

Sadly, it is a common occurance especially when house clearing the effects of the deceased. I used to share premises with a House clearance company, and they burnt loads of cool stuff just because the relatives/authority people had neither the time, or often the inclination to go through it properly and take the less obviously valuable items. We think 'Is it valuable?' first followed by 'Do we need a.........?' and then its, 'crikey that a lot of old tat. we need to get rid quickly'

I had an argument with my dad over a very useful piece of kitchen furniture that had an aluminium top (we were learing out my gran's house and we had a fortnight to do it). I could see a use for it  and I still bloody can, and he was for burning it. Lets just say, it fretilised the garden nicely >>:-( >>:-( .

Mind you, much of her bedroom furniture was eaten alive by woodworm, so his argument was not unsound.

Anyway, back to the Victory. Hows it going Joe?
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Nemo

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2015, 08:39:56 PM »

Reminds me of that film Operation Petticoat! Where they only had red and white paint enough to paint the sub so they mixed it!



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Nemo

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2015, 08:48:27 PM »

Good photos Colin, I saw Victory when I was in the dockyard in July and I actually I think it doesn't look as bad as people seem to think, when you really think about it she's in remarkable condition for a 250 year old wooden ship, I worked at Camper & Nicholson's until they closed down and we did a lot of work on her, including renewing the main deck calling, renewing all the cannon ramrod's and the racks in the powder room also all the dummy powder charges on them, they are all filled with fine plastic pellets, very much enjoyed working on her. :-))

I read somewhere Joe, that almost all of Victory has been replaced over the years so there is little of the actual original ship left. I also heard a report that her masts have steel rods inserted to keep them  from collapsing. Little matter though as she is still a ship worth visiting and enjoying. :-))
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2015, 09:48:01 PM »

Yes, I think that the only remaining original structure is around the Orlop deck area where Nelson died. In a way it is encouraging that everything can be replaced piecemeal whilst still effectively preserving the whole. Very much like the human body in fact.

Colin
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2015, 09:53:31 PM »

The masts were replaced with wood-clad steel replicas a long time ago.  Currently the bases of the masts are being examined with a view to replacing them with something lighter like carbon fibre as the weight is causing problems.  Less than 10% of the structure is stated to be original, probably much less.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2015, 01:44:47 AM »

 ;)...replacing the masts?.....in reality, UK nor Europe has Oak trees tall enough to be used as replacements [of the original design....and not fabricated from 246 individual pieces as was proposed] ....

 %)...also read that there is insufficient Oak timber in the UK or Europe to build a replacement full sized Victory of the original design

 :D...apart from that, we don't have the skills to build a replacement ship using the traditional tools used in the original build...

Such is the price of human intervention in our world  <*< .... Derek
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2015, 08:05:47 AM »

Traditionally the lifespan of an ocean going wooden ship was only 20 to 30 years, although some reached 40 years in service.  In practice quite a few refits were required during this time considering they were built mainly of biodegradable materials and had rough usage.  Rigging and spars required a lot of maintenance in service, plus keeping plank joints sealed.  Shipworm and various types of rot took a heavy toll.

Amazing to think that HMS Victory was still afloat until the 1920's, considering our climate.
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JimG

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2015, 10:55:33 AM »

;)...replacing the masts?.....in reality, UK nor Europe has Oak trees tall enough to be used as replacements [of the original design....and not fabricated from 246 individual pieces as was proposed] ....

Not a problem as oak was never used for masts as it does not grow tall and straight enough. Masts would be spruce or pine. The masts of first raters would be built and not one piece as even then it was very difficult to obtain trunks large enough.
Quote
%)...also read that there is insufficient Oak timber in the UK or Europe to build a replacement full sized Victory of the original design
It probably would be difficult to find enough old growth oak timber of large enough sizes but it definitely would be impossible to find the  bent wood for the knees.
Quote
:D...apart from that, we don't have the skills to build a replacement ship using the traditional tools used in the original build...

Such is the price of human intervention in our world  <*< .... Derek

The skills are still out there, you just need to look at Holland. They built the Batavia replica in the late 1990s and are now building a replica 80 gun ship of the line, De Zeven ProvinciŽn, using traditional tools and methods.

Jim
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JimG

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2015, 11:01:49 AM »

Traditionally the lifespan of an ocean going wooden ship was only 20 to 30 years, although some reached 40 years in service.  In practice quite a few refits were required during this time considering they were built mainly of biodegradable materials and had rough usage.  Rigging and spars required a lot of maintenance in service, plus keeping plank joints sealed.  Shipworm and various types of rot took a heavy toll.

Amazing to think that HMS Victory was still afloat until the 1920's, considering our climate.

Few realise that at that time a major refit would often consist of totally dismantling the ship, replacing most of the wood and rebuilding what was basically a new ship with the old name. This way they could get around the King or Parliament refusing to allow them to build new ships. This explains the long life of many major warships of the time.

Jim
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2015, 11:21:22 AM »

Sadly, it is a common occurance especially when house clearing the effects of the deceased. I used to share premises with a House clearance company, and they burnt loads of cool stuff just because the relatives/authority people had neither the time, or often the inclination to go through it properly and take the less obviously valuable items. We think 'Is it valuable?' first followed by 'Do we need a.........?' and then its, 'crikey that a lot of old tat. we need to get rid quickly'

I had an argument with my dad over a very useful piece of kitchen furniture that had an aluminium top (we were learing out my gran's house and we had a fortnight to do it). I could see a use for it  and I still 'blinking!' can, and he was for burning it. Lets just say, it fretilised the garden nicely >>:-( >>:-( .

Mind you, much of her bedroom furniture was eaten alive by woodworm, so his argument was not unsound.

Anyway, back to the Victory. Hows it going Joe?

Hi Ian,  Not done much except to clean it, she was in a filthy state, whether I'll get around to refinishing her myself is debatable, I think we would all agree to build a complex model you have to have a real interest in the subject, and the determination to build it to the best of your ability, whilst I can appreciate the appeal of these early vessels I don't think I could summon up the passion needed to rebuild the very complex rigging, so for now she is on a shelf out of harms way while I build my Hunt Class, here's a couple photo's I scanned that were tucked in side one of the books that came with her, they show the skill of the late builder. :-))

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grendel

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2015, 12:49:36 PM »

My Uncle Built a Victory Model, at nearly 6 foot high, wide and long it was huge - it took him nearly a year just on the rigging, eventually he donated it to the local museum.
Grendel
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2015, 07:59:52 PM »

That is amazing work Joe. I take my hat off to those who can create such intricate rigging.

I had a quick look at the Hunt class yesterday in bed and there were quite a few of them in different batches. Interesting ships.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2015, 01:06:45 AM »

With the attention to detail and the excellent craftsmanship I can see why he chose to user varnish over paint.
I can see why you are uncertain about restoring it, that rigging is a work of art and like you say yourself its not your thing. It would be a shame crime to balls it up
Maybe there's someone local to you who has the skills to take on that kind of restoration
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2015, 06:18:58 PM »

Yes that level of detail takes skill and the passion to want to do it, I just don't have that passion for this type of vessel, sadder still is all the smashed and broken masts and yardarm's in the bottom of the box, not all there but enough to see the work he put in the rigging, if I come across someone is really into this type of vessel and would like to take it on then OK, my main reason of accepting it was not so much to rebuild it but to save a great piece of work from being totally destroyed by people who don't know what they are looking at, if there was such a person they could have it for say a donation to the RNLI, I personally don't know anyone who's into square riggers.
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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2015, 05:19:57 PM »

The 'pink' paint - it just came to me - when I was a lad and living in a council house, the chippies replaced a couple of rotted windows, when the frames turned up they were painted pink, I assume an primer undercoat, is that what they did, paint the ocre bits in a primer paint that was pink before the final top coat !!!!!

How do you clean the dust of one of these anyway, in fact any model boat?
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2015, 05:39:14 PM »


How do you clean the dust of one of these anyway, in fact any model boat?


An airbrush (With no paint or solvent in it) is quite effective
Also the usb keyboard vacuums



When looking for a stock image I found this:-

Have just ordered one  :embarrassed:
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2015, 05:51:03 PM »

To initially clean the Victory model I used my caravan vac,  small but powerful, one end has a flap with sponge filter under this is a connection for the hose to blow this was used with a soft bristle brush, with the boat on the garden table, there sure was a lot of dust clouds. %%
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warspite

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2015, 05:18:56 PM »


Radiojoe put
When looking for a stock image I found this:-

Have just ordered one  :embarrassed:


I'd be embarrassed at buying one of the henry's - what with the cost etc, my boss just bought for work two SHOPVACs from B & Q, £89.00 each, bigger powerful and have a little function that allows you to plug a tool into the front 3 pin socket, when switched to the 2nd setting and connected to the tool (say a sander with a hoover connection), when you switch the tool on the vac starts up and switches off when you stop the tool, large capacity holding tank and can do fine and almost talc dust with the filter, nice piece of kit and inexpensive compared to henry's.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2015, 08:07:33 PM »

That is a clever idea. My friend who built and outfitted a workshop last decade used Wickes vacuums and used these as extractors but this function would have added efficiency to his dust extraction.

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essex2visuvesi

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Re: HMS Victory
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2015, 10:49:30 PM »

Radiojoe put
When looking for a stock image I found this:-

Have just ordered one  :embarrassed:


I'd be embarrassed at buying one of the henry's - what with the cost etc, my boss just bought for work two SHOPVACs from B & Q, £89.00 each, bigger powerful and have a little function that allows you to plug a tool into the front 3 pin socket, when switched to the 2nd setting and connected to the tool (say a sander with a hoover connection), when you switch the tool on the vac starts up and switches off when you stop the tool, large capacity holding tank and can do fine and almost talc dust with the filter, nice piece of kit and inexpensive compared to henry's.


The one above is desktop vacuum cleaner
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HENRY-THE-HOOVER-DESK-VACUUM-CLEANER-COMPUTER-KEYBOARD-LAPTOP-TIDY-TOY-PP2500HH/331683621840?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D329bb0b5c0254afd927e77948bbe9e69%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D11%26sd%3D331672034036
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