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Author Topic: Type 26 Lite Frigates  (Read 5448 times)

Colin Bishop

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Type 26 Lite Frigates
« on: November 23, 2015, 04:46:51 PM »

Looks like the Government is once again making the classic mistake when it comes to replacing the type 23 frigates.

Money is to be 'saved' by constructing just 8 of the proposed type 26 ships and making up the numbers with a cheaper design, the type 26 'lite'.

If these latter ships do get built, what is the betting that:

The design becomes hopelessly compromised by either trying to do too much with too little or simply settling for 2nd rate units.
The ships will have a short service life because they may not be built to full military specification and/or unable to accommodate future weapons and equipment upgrades.
The extra cost in designing and building something new and different will be greater than simply extending the type 26 production run and bringing unit costs down.
There will be a huge delay in building the ships due to arguments as to what capability should be included on limited displacement.
Somebody will have the bright idea of having the basic hulls built in South Korea and fitted out in the UK.

One of the biggest consistent mistakes we have made in the past is to build down to a price without looking at the whole life consequences. Typical examples being the Mk 1 type 45s and the Invincible class, both 'quart in a pint pot' ships.

Colin
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Shipmate60

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2015, 06:12:02 PM »

To save money the MoD were considering not engineering ships to Naval Engineering Standards (NES) but to civilian Lloyds Register.
In fact Warships are now inspected to a Warship Lloyds Clasification.
HMS Ocean was built for Diesel Propulsion and was a merchant style Invincible Class.
Auxiliaries USED to be built to NES and as such would last well over 30 yrs.


Bob
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Netleyned

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 06:15:11 PM »

Remember the old Type 14's.
Stopgap frigates that went on and on and on.
Cheap stopgap but still built to NES.


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Z750Jay

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 06:25:36 PM »

A few years ago at a 'Way Ahead' chat in Portsmouth Navy Base they proposed something similar. There would be X amont of Surface fleet combatants in a traditional warship role and several lite versions for disaster relief and general patrolling.
We have another company and navy chat in the ship hall on Thursday
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 06:49:51 PM »

'A few years ago at a 'Way Ahead' chat in Portsmouth Navy Base they proposed something similar.'

There is a difference in planning ahead for ships to undertake that role and last minute cost cutting which is what appears to be happening here where the 'lite' ships are being suggested in place of the original 'full' versions, the proposed numbers of which I believe may already have been cut down to 13.

Colin
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Brian60

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 07:10:21 PM »

Is there any reason they couldn't buy new old ships from the U.S? They always seem to have plenty to get rid of, and if we had them and saved a few million on each one, even if they only lasted 10-15 years. Its got to be worth exploring.

I'd rather us save the cash and use somebody els'es technology than be able to say yeah we invented all this new tech but paid through the nose for it in cost overuns etc etc.

Z750Jay

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 07:38:46 PM »

The US stuff is pants!

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derekwarner

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 08:07:14 PM »

Totally away from above water naval vessels, but our OZ Government is back-dooring a preferred Japanese built conventional submarine fleet to be fitted with systems [in Australia] capable of talking with US & British [& NATO] counterparts

These the are to replace the aging Collins Class, which replaced the even older Oberon Class.......[I do remember supervising the removal of an OMC hydraulic control module on an O boat...so how old does that make me?  :o.........]

One possibility here is.......if Politicians think they can command a Country, why not send them on a 3 month Naval Commando training course....with only those graduating  <*< being allowed to go back to their civvy street Government jobs.....

You can just imagine it....engine room [MTP] sailors in a few years polishing the Mitsubishi star symbol or the Toyota hoola hoop symbol on the rocker covers of the V16 diesels {-)........or worse still...would the Japanese sub let the engines to the Koreans only to have them build IHI Sulzers or the Chinese to build Wartsillas or MTU-Duetz.....all under Licence of course O0......Derek
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Starspider

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 11:57:10 PM »

To free up more money for surface assets could we not pass on replacing Polaris   <*<  Build a couple of the more useful hunter/killer type cans
I'll get my coat.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 05:46:49 PM »

The Type 23s are already two sub classes, with the high end Anti-Submarine variant with the towed array, and the lower end, more general purpose variant. so all they are doing is replacing thirteen frigates with thirteen frigates, no big news, or even new news there. however the 'up to' and 'possibly more than' numbers given to the so called 'Lite' frigate give the usual causes for concern.
I believe that back in the day, the towed array option was going to be installed in the entire class. this proved too expensive and was reduced to, I believe, just eight of the class. this is now policy based on some sound military planning...which was based on cost cutting over fifteen years ago. Cost cutting measures then become hard and fast military strategy now? Thank god that we are in the hands of experts, not bean counters and headline seekers....

 :P
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Netleyned

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 06:00:15 PM »

More remote control drones for the RAF,
Remote warships could be controlled from
the Still and West by a few old Steering Competition
winners paid with Pork Pies and Cider %% %%
I will volunteer as and when :-))


Ned
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Z750Jay

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 06:18:17 PM »

They stripped most of the towed array from the 23's. There are only 4 or 5 with the new one, not to save costs but the new one is not good for wildlife!
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kinmel

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 08:05:01 PM »

HMS Ocean completed a 65million refit last year and it has been quietly announced this afternoon that it will be decommissioned in 2018.

Strangely, Cameron forgot to mention that yesterday, when the ship was listed amongst the "strengths" of the Royal navy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-34909649
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 09:12:48 PM »

So Ocean is to be scrapped after just 20 year's service? Not such a good bargain then...

Colin
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kinmel

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2015, 09:50:32 PM »

and no mention that HMS Bulwark will be brought out of "extended readiness" to replace her.
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Klunk

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 05:12:36 AM »

Not having heard any news.....was there anything about replacing our non existent maritime patrol aircraft. ....or do we still have to rely on the french and norwegeons
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BarryM

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 08:39:06 AM »

Maritime patrol aircraft are to be bought from the US to operate out of Lossiemouth but will not be in service before 2020, assuming they are not cancelled in the interim.

Thus the answer is 'yes', we will still have to go cap in hand to the Norwegians, French, Canadians etc.

BM
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deadbeat

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 12:45:31 PM »

It seems HMS Ocean is being sacrificed so we can man the Queen Elizabeth!
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Starspider

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2015, 02:30:41 PM »

It would appear our politicians could not organise one of them in a brewery  >>:-(
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Netleyned

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2015, 03:20:47 PM »

It seems HMS Ocean is being sacrificed so we can man the Queen Elizabeth!


Man/Woman the QE  >>:-( >>:-(


Ned
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2015, 03:39:49 PM »

Maybe we could use the phrase ' to huMAN the QE..'

That does discriminate apes etc.....so no RM :D
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Netleyned

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2015, 03:45:36 PM »

No Deckapes {-) {-)


Ned
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Netleyned

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2015, 03:50:29 PM »

Female Stokers seeking the Golden Rivet  %% %%


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gingyer

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2015, 04:53:02 PM »

HMS ocean I was told reliably had the end in sight along time ago.
It wasn't built to naval standards and to be blunt it wasn't built to any electrical standards
As I knew and had sacked a good number of the electricians working in her being built.

The reason she was kept at the last SDR was very simple her flight deck lift...
It was bigger than the illustrious or ark Royal so could handle the Apache helicopters,
Which the others could not, if they could then ocean would of been long gone.

2018 will see the Queen Elizabeth commissioned about a year (albeit) not fully operational
But able to take over.
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Netleyned

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Re: Type 26 Lite Frigates
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2015, 05:28:39 PM »


2018 will see the Queen Elizabeth commissioned about a year (albeit) not fully operational
But able to take over.


As a helo pad and immigrant ferry >>:-(


Ned
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