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Author Topic: The car tax disc  (Read 8373 times)

sparkey

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The car tax disc
« on: November 27, 2015, 03:38:40 PM »

 <:( If you are like me rue the passing of the tax disc,there was something reassuring about getting that little round piece of paper after parting with all that hard earned cash,well it has come light today that the 9 million pounds saving that getting rid of the disc would produce has turned into a loss of 86 million pounds,well that was clever wasn't it,they (the people with all the brains) said that anyone without tax would be picked up by the police,we don't have enough police to fight crime let alone nick car tax dodgers,what they forgot was that traffic wardens and others reported them to DVLA now they can't as they don't have access to the data,I say bring back the little disc so we can all see who is paying their way and no more bright idea's please.....Ray <*< <*< <*< <*< 
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FsASTSyd1

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2015, 07:26:40 PM »

Isn't it the little booklet for new MPs "If it ain't broke - FIX IT"  :-)) %% :}


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derekwarner

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2015, 07:34:31 PM »

Same here in most States of OZ, pay the registration but no label for the car

Here we don't have a lot of Constables on the beat, just driving around in V8 super  :police: cars.......0 to 100 in 2/3 of 10 seconds

These vehicles would remind many of a internals of a jet fighter ....goodness knows how the  :police: driver can remember which button commences a video camera FWD....or AFT or to the sides via joysticks....then aim the camera at the rego plates & in 14 milli seconds the image is back from a computer somewhere....confirming if the vehicle in question has valid registration......then the chase is on....

V8 super car does a 180 degree hand brake turn at 50 km/hour, tyres belching blue smoke .......intercepts the suspect vehicle and informs the driver she is driving an unregistered vehicle

The driver protests, stating she has a valid registration electronic receipt at home on her computer........the two children in the vehicle [think it is all a joke].......'they are my {-)  %) grandsons'

The :police: officer states that he will be lenient and not charge her this time if she drives immediately to her home......

[further investigation reveals that there is a 24 hour delay >>:-(  between most Australian Insurance companies computers transferring data to the NSW Department of Motor Vehicles computers that the  :police: access for their information] .............

Derek

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Bob K

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2015, 07:38:37 PM »

The figures just released show twice as many untaxed vehicles as before.  Inevitable really as if you have no tax disk or an out of date one it was so obvious to all.  Now it relies on random database checks that no one has the been given the extra resources to do. 
Another major loss of revenue was in the penalty for not displaying a tax disk was significantly more than merely not having paid the vehicle tax. 
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Shipmate60

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 07:47:39 PM »

I was in getting one of our company vehicles MoT'd when a lady came in as she thought her MoT was near expiry. When checked it certainly was, over a year expired and of course she was never stopped.


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malcolmfrary

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 09:14:10 AM »

A mate of mine had been cheerfully driving around for several months with an expired drivers license.  So its quite probable that the traffic cops concentrate on likely profiles for checking vehicles. 
I have yet to see a high tech "economy solution" rollout replacing a mature working system actually produce the intended results, mostly because the people proposing the change knew even less than the people implementing the change about the job that was being affected.  A company that I worked for changed over from paper time sheets filled in by pen to an electronic "organizer" device.  The instruction book that everybody had to use would have provided the paper for 6 months of time sheets.  Each change (and there were plenty) took about a months worth of extra paper.  Inputting data was a slow and cumbersome business, a job that was a few minute per week became a good half hour per day, on a good day.  The kick came at the end of the week when the data chips were sent in to clerical, where the data was read off and put on paper.  So a paper free system actually used more paper than the system it was replacing and cost more manhours than was previously used, eventually winding up on paper, so that the bosses in the office could use it.
The discless system might work one day, but it will be at vastly more cost than the instigators ever imagined, in needing different hardware out in the field and in the quantity of that hardware, and the extra training of extra people to work it. 
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mrsgoggins

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2015, 09:26:33 AM »

It's another well thought through move, just like 24 hour drinking and allowing solicitors to advertise.
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plastic

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2015, 09:34:16 AM »

I travel to the US quite often - it's interesting that the UK government seems to be picking and choosing the worst possible trends from there.

The next will probably be a change in prescriptions so you can buy your own drugs direct if they are cheaper than the chemists (apparently, only 10% of people pay for prescriptions anyway). That will lead to drugs being advertised heavily on tv - alongside the lawyers and insurance and Geico internet.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2015, 10:13:22 AM »

I still don't understand why the tax cannot be levied onto fuel prices.



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Bob K

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2015, 10:23:47 AM »

I still don't understand why the tax cannot be levied onto fuel prices.

Actually, it is.  Going back awhile tax was hyped up on fuel to move towards fuel-only taxes used across Europe.  In the end we never dropped road tax, but still kept the EU-style high tax on fuel.
Currently we pay just about the highest fuel prices in Europe, where of course other countries pay at the pump rather through a vehicle tax disk system.

See  http://www.fuel-prices-europe.info/
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sparkey

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2015, 10:24:26 AM »

 :-)) I don't understand either,it is the most fare way, the more you use the road the more you pay and no one can dodge it,it also would save on admin costs and best of all it would be one less thing to worry about every year....Ray :-)) 
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inertia

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2015, 11:14:43 AM »

:-)) I don't understand either,it is the most fare way, the more you use the road the more you pay and no one can dodge it,it also would save on admin costs and best of all it would be one less thing to worry about every year....Ray :-))

I can just imagine the vastly-different sets of calculations and propaganda which would be put up in support of, and objection to, such a proposal.
On one side the AA and RAC would be in favour because it would greatly assist the private motorists who typically do less miles than those who drive company vehicles (and therefore are not paying the road tax themselves), while the road haulage folk would be up in arms. The Greens would love it because the car manufacturers would then have even more of a reason to improve fuel consumption, while the Jeremy Clarkson Fan Club would howl in pain at the cost of taking their turbo-nutter-idiot machines into the filling station.
Of course, the politicians probably have their own vested interests too, so I doubt whether anything will be done about it. After all, it's easier for the clods at the Treasury just to add the shortfall to the tax take and recalculate new rates; most of us will pay up anyway.
At the end of the day it's far too simple and much too sensible, so the EU is bound to object!!
DM
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2015, 02:37:47 PM »

My car is a 1300 yet still attracts the 500pa road tax, as well as returning 20ish MPG
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nivapilot

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2015, 02:52:34 PM »

AA and RAC wouldn't like it either.....both have massive fuel bills.
Probably larger than a lot of haulage companies.
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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2015, 02:56:54 PM »

My car is a 1300 yet still attracts the 500pa road tax, as well as returning 20ish MPG

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essex2visuvesi

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2015, 03:02:56 PM »

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Perkasaman2

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2015, 03:36:46 PM »

I feel that  individual vehicle taxation is quite pointless and unnecessary. It should be levied on fuel instead. I suppose this money is notionally spent on the national road system and the taxed raised on  fuel would be more or less proportional to each road user. Heavy vehicles cause most of the damage to road surfaces congestion issues aside.
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plastic

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2015, 03:45:14 PM »

Road tax is kept separate to subsidise the haulage industry - if you put it on fuel, the small car / low mileage drivers would pay little tax so the heavy users would have to pay a lot more than their current total tax to keep the 'take' the same.

That would put a huge jump into transport costs and, in turn, inflation - so the governement will always keep it separate.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2015, 03:46:53 PM »

Taxing fuel certainly makes more sense but the problem is that in moving from the present system there will be big winners and losers and some of the losers could be put out of business. Whenever you change the basis of a tax system it is the transitional arrangements which cause the biggest headache.

Colin
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Bob K

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2015, 05:50:15 PM »

Taxing fuel certainly makes more sense ....


You want tax on fuel instead - you already have it.  We have almost the most expensive and highly taxed fuel almost anywhere in the world.  Here its as if we had an expensive pay to view BBC whilst still retaining the TV licence fee.  Who would accept that? 
61% of every litre is tax, more than almost all other countries who tax at the pump instead of applying a road tax.  So, the AA RAC road hauliers, even ambulances, all get penalised to our commercial detriment - then we all get hit with road tax on top.  Drop road tax, unlike most others we are paying twice.

PS:  To put it in context I pay 50 for my road tax, and at 2,300 miles a year that only works out at 2 pence per mile. 
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2015, 06:19:22 PM »

'You want tax on fuel instead - you already have it.'

Yes, you are right of course, the issue is whether the road tax should be added to the existing fuel tax (which has VAT added to it of course!)

Fuel prices do vary considerably all over the world, North America is ridiculously cheap by our standards but some European countries are expensive, Greece for example. On top of that the differential between petrol and diesel can vary a lot as well.

I suppose the other point worth making is that the road tax itself is unfairness upon unfairness with many VW drivers probably paying rather less than they ought to!

Colin
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2015, 06:49:56 PM »



PS:  To put it in context I pay 50 for my road tax, and at 2,300 miles a year that only works out at 2 pence per mile.


Mine equates to 12.5p per mile as I do approximately 4000 miles a year
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Grumpy Dave

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2015, 09:32:32 PM »

Ref Bob K. 'There are twice as many untaxed cars'. Maybe this means that they are better at catching untaxed cars than they were. Apart from that I agree , we are the soft targets, the AA & RAC are not looking after our interests, we have no 'heavy duty' lobbyists (no pun intended). We are treated worse than criminals. Life is c*%p ,until you consider the alternative.
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Andyn

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2015, 09:59:55 PM »

Taxing fuel certainly makes more sense

How does it? The minimum wage cleaner who has to travel 20 miles to work in his old Corsa will suddenly be paying considerably more tax than the school run mum in her 34,000 Audi Q5. Mr Corsa won't be able to afford to work anymore and will have to go on the dole. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The car tax disc
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2015, 10:41:41 PM »

Quote
'How does it? The minimum wage cleaner who has to travel 20 miles to work in his old Corsa will suddenly be paying considerably more tax than the school run mum in her 34,000 Audi Q5. Mr Corsa won't be able to afford to work anymore and will have to go on the dole. Makes perfect sense to me.'

Just because it would be a more sensible method doesn't mean that it would be sensible to impose it. You would get extreme winners and losers so how do you manage the transitional arrangements? I have already made that point above.

Still, it does raise the question of whether fuel and road tax should reflect the amount of use made of the roads or whether it should be used as a rather rough and ready redistribution of money between the richer and poorer elements of society. If you were starting from scratch I don't think you would do it that way but we are not starting from scratch. Maybe a gradual transition from road tax to fuel tax would be the answer. It wouldn't prevent there being winners and losers but there would be some time to adjust. Whenever you make changes for what might be termed 'the general good' some poor devil will end up with the short straw. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't go ahead with he change but it does mean that every effort should be made to give the losers a soft landing although quite how you might do that when moving road tax to additional fuel tax is problematical to say the least - which is probably why it hasn't been done.

Colin

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