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Author Topic: Jobber's insurance  (Read 2816 times)

BFSMP

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Jobber's insurance
« on: December 16, 2015, 05:13:47 PM »

I have always called those that do odd jobs around ones house inside or out, who have no specialist work, but have trained in all sorts, "Jobbers".

Just down the road today was a young man working on a porch roof at some brickwork that had blown and he was replacing these blown bricks and also pointing as he went on. I had nodded the time of day to him over the past few days, and he seemed a friendly and competent young man.

Sadly and the first thing I knew this afternoon was when one and then two  emergency ambulances appeared between the houses that I occupy and the other house.

The young man had taken a step back and fallen off the roof and landed on a raised wall flower bed onto his back.He was taken away on a spinal board with a neck brace also in place.

I ask this question being a bit of a worrier, who is responsible for his fall, both technically and for insurance purposes.

I would presume that he would have insurance because in our chat he told me he was going back home to Yorkshire to his family for Christmas, but if he wasn't who would be liable. Himself or the household who he was working for and on?

A very frightening prospect should the worst have happened to the poor lad.

Jim
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Netleyned

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 05:33:19 PM »

But of a minefield Jim.
Any Insurer would trot out
the old Health and Safety gambit.
Was a risk assessment in place,
Was all above ground equipment tested and
certified.
I could go on ad nauseum.
Suffice to say, it's a dangerous job working
at heights,even 10feet can be fatal.
Just hope the lad has not been seriously injured.
Back board and head brace are standard operating
procedure with any suspected spinal injury.


Ned
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Nemo

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 06:39:33 PM »

During my time as a buildings manager for the local Education authority, it was my responsibility to ensure that contractors working on my site had full insurance cover for accidents such as the one mentioned. ie. - down to the contractor. I was also expected to conduct a full risk assessment prior to the job commencement and ensure that his insurance was commensurate.
 (big word there!).
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boneash

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015, 06:51:25 PM »

I would hope that as long as the home owner has no specialist knowledge in building work the guidelines below would be relevant..

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/areyou/builder.htm
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 07:36:09 PM »

It is for you, the employer/householder, to establish that any contractor you employ has the necessary insurance in place and that they work in a safe environment i.e. work off scaffolding if working at height or use a proper roof ladder if working on a roof for instance.

I've had recent experience of this, could I pursued the contractors who have just completed work on my house to use use a scaffold to put the new gutting on - no, they insisted on using a ladder 'cos that's always the way they had done it and we're men! I left them to it in the end telling told them more than once that it was at their own risk - while I was filming them.

LB
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gingyer

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 07:41:45 PM »

It is both the client and the contractor who will be liable.

As it is a house owner (not a land lord) they will look more favourably on the owner and in fairness
They will maybe get a warning of what they should have done for future.
But if it was a business then they would of been ripping them apart just as much as
The contractor

The CDM regs are pretty clear EVERYONE has a duty of care it just depends on where you are
In the food chain/ and knowledge level for how much your liable for
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Nemo

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 07:51:31 PM »

I am sure none of the replies so far, are set in stone. In the end, if it comes to it - the courts will settle who is liable in any particular set of circumstances.
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gingyer

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 07:52:56 PM »

I've had recent experience of this, could I pursued the contractors who have just completed work on my house to use use a scaffold to put the new gutting on - no, they insisted on using a ladder 'cos that's always the way they had done it and we're men! I left them to it in the end telling told them more than once that it was at their own risk - while I was filming them.

LB


Congratulations LB if something had happened then you have just left yourself open to the full weight of the law bearing down on you!


As the client you knew it was unsafe but you allowed it to continue, this now changes the matter and you are now more guilty than the muppets doing the work.
what you should and were required to do is stop the work and then instruct them to install a scaffold, if they failed to comply then put them off the work until they change their mind or get another contractor.


Just because you recorded yourself telling them that it is their own risk doesn't make it so,
all these signs you see XYZ at your own risk are only to keep people from suing, it is the property owner who is responsible
regardless of what you say.
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gingyer

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 07:59:36 PM »

I am afraid not Nemo, now the HSE are adamant you as the client are as liable as the contractor,

the problem is the general public's awareness of the legislation is not as up to date and that is why
contractor are legally required to discuss the legislation with clients prior to taking on the works.
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Liverbudgie

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 08:14:33 PM »


Congratulations LB if something had happened then you have just left yourself open to the full weight of the law bearing down on you!


As the client you knew it was unsafe but you allowed it to continue, this now changes the matter and you are now more guilty than the muppets doing the work.
what you should and were required to do is stop the work and then instruct them to install a scaffold, if they failed to comply then put them off the work until they change their mind or get another contractor.


Just because you recorded yourself telling them that it is their own risk doesn't make it so,
all these signs you see XYZ at your own risk are only to keep people from suing, it is the property owner who is responsible
regardless of what you say.

Well that clears that up - in future they will use scaffolding whether they like it or not.
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gingyer

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 08:19:44 PM »

Well that clears that up - in future they will use scaffolding whether they like it or not.


AND they will complain, moan and spit the dummy.... BUT you must be firm and straight to the point :-))
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rob

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 08:12:06 AM »


AND they will complain, moan and spit the dummy.... BUT you must be firm and straight to the point :-))


And you as the house owner will have to pay the extortionate rates that scaffold firms can now get away with ! ( since Mr and Mrs Bliar told us all that the man doing the job wasn't capable of determining how he wanted to do the job)
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gingyer

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Re: Jobber's insurance
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2015, 01:13:49 PM »


And you as the house owner will have to pay the extortionate rates that scaffold firms can now get away with ! ( since Mr and Mrs Bliar told us all that the man doing the job wasn't capable of determining how he wanted to do the job)

Sorry Rob, As soon as they say that then I want to know why!
A zip up scaffold you can get easier than a ladder and for cost comparison not too much in it

The ladder needs to be inspected a lot more frequently than the scaffold by a specialist.
If I had a builder telling me it's going to cost X for a ladder and Y for a scaffold and they were miles apart the only reason would be he was trying to lob the entire cost of a scaffold on to me.
Therefor once the job was completed it would belong to me not him, now see there face  :o
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