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Author Topic: Billings St.Canute  (Read 12327 times)

portlineapp

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Billings St.Canute
« on: December 18, 2015, 08:35:16 am »

Good morning all,
At 75 I'm new to this hobby.
A couple of years ago I acquired the Billings St.Canute as a project to work on indoors during the winter.I'm used to working with all manner of small manual jobs and have sufficient carpentry tools & skills to make me think that I could be successful in the build.
The model was bought secondhand but I'm sure that everything in the box was as it was when first bought.
I've now planked up the two halves of the hull,smoothed and painted them to my satisfaction and the rudimentary instructions now indicate that I should glue the two halves together.
However,it seems obvious to me that I should first make some arrangement for siting the prop shaft and rudder stock with it's bearing,and any other components I haven't yet thought of.My instruction manual doesn't contain any information about this operation.
It occurs to me that Billings might think that the buyer is sufficiently experienced to be able to proceed on his own initiative.
If this is so,I am quite happy to go along with that but first I thought I would see if anyone else has written information beyond that contained in the instruction manual.
 Information of any kind would be very gratefully received.
Thanks,
Les
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 08:45:40 am »

Billing boats are well known for what can only be described as "sparse" instructions, and assuming the builder knows the sequence without being told. In on of my BB kits at no point it did it mention planking the hull!
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2015, 11:15:11 am »

Dear Les, It is is many years since I built the St Canute so I am struggling to remember the exact details. I have looked in my files but no longer have the build instructions only the plans. I am pretty confident that I recall building the two halves of the hull including the keel on two boards and then fixing them together. This is an unusual way of building a hull but it seemed to work ok for me. I then drilled the assembled hull to fit the propshaft and rudder stock. I hope that helps. Graham
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2015, 11:51:41 am »

I have been doing a bit of a search on here for some previous posts I did no the St Canute but I think they got lost in one of the crashes. I am therefore re posting some pictures of the internal layout. Cheers Graham
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2015, 11:54:05 am »

A couple more shots. Graham
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2015, 01:59:14 pm »

Thanks to those who've replied so far.
One piece of information I've picked up so far is that it's O.K. to cut away the ribs (frames) and the central upper longitudonal spar in the way of the deck openings.
I've decided to mount the prop shaft housing on my own initiative.From the plan it is parallel to the keel,so no awkward measurements,but perhaps someone can tell me what methods are used to seal the 'stern gland' where the outer shaft section enters the hull.Similarly I presume there are dodges to prevent water access between the prop shaft casing and the shaft itself.Another presumption is that a similar method of sealing the rudder stock and it's housing will be used.
Any further tips on any aspect of the build are welcomed,
Les
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 10:40:19 pm »

Les, I usually use a 2 part epoxy to fix the prop tube into the hull and oil the shaft. Grease can cause too much drag on a small motor. Greased close fitting thrust washers at each end seem to keep water from going up the shaft. If the top of the rudder stock is kept above the water line water will not get in but I also grease it as well. Graham
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2015, 08:25:45 am »

Thanks Graham,
When I first decided to have a go at building this model I had no thought of making it powered or controllable.It was intended purely for display but I'm coming round to the idea that fitting a motor etc. would be the way to go.
As with the model itself,I'm a complete greenhorn as regards motors,remote steering gear etc,so I was wondering if you'd guide me to something suitable that I could read up about in that department.
For instance,the components in the previously sent in photographs  -  can you tell me the makes and general details so that I can make some very basic comparisons on Google.
Also, to give me an idea whether I want to spend that kind of mazumah or not!
Regards,
Les
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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2015, 01:36:37 pm »

Hi Les
I also have built one , It is listed as a static model from Billings that's why it doesn't Help with installation of r/c , although mine had a prop shaft supplied in the kit.
I think the instructions are useless anyway, After the two halves off the hull had been joined I drilled the hole for the shaft before fitting the rudder (not much help at your stage of the build),
I wish I had soldered a oiling tube onto the prop shaft 😯

Good luck with your build, if you need any pictures I will try and post them on here

spud
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2015, 02:28:04 pm »

Hello Les. Well if you are going to make it radio controlled you will need a transmitter and receiver. I am a fan of the Plant T5, 2.4 which goes for about £45. You will need a speed controller. I used an Mtroniks Viper marine (water proof and reversible), current cost about £22. You will need a servo for the rudder control. Probably about £5. A 6v or 7.2 NiMi battery will cost about £15 depending on capacity. You don't need a LiPo for this model.  The bigger the capacity the longer you sail. If you use a separate battery for the radio, which I prefer, it will probably cost you another £5. I suggest you contact Cornwall model boats for the motor, probable cost £10. You don't need a brushless motor. Motor couplings cost about £5 too. You might need a motor mount, cost about £2.50 but in this model I made my own. I also made my own linkage from the servo to the rudder but they can be bought at most model shops selling stuff for aircraft. I think that's it. Have a look at the traders section on here for suppliers. I recommend Cornwall model Boats. Good stock and speedy delivery. Good luck
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dougal99

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2015, 04:03:13 pm »

Note that id you use a separate battery for the receiver (rx) you will need to disconnect the red wire on the speed controller (esc) to rx lead, otherwise you will have a conflict between the power supplies to the rx.
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2015, 09:58:45 am »

Graham,Spud & Dougal,
Thanks for the replies.You've given me plenty of  information to wade through so I'll leave you in peace while I digest it.
Just one thing before I settle down to study it  -  the thing that immedeately flashes in front of me is that the motors rev at several thousand rpm while the prop shaft (when I was at sea,anyway) should turn at !00+ rpm.Do you need a gearbox or can the motor speed be reduced by some sort of regulator?
Les
 
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dougal99

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2015, 11:07:16 am »

Motor speed is controlled by the ESC Electronic Speed Controller via the transmitter and receiver. With this device you can get the prop to turn so slowly you can count the revs.
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2015, 12:00:56 pm »

Graham & all,
Well,I've looked at a good deal of information.The trouble is that my aging brain doesn't absorb everything,especially as a lot of the teminology is new to me.
However on the recommendation of Cornwall Model Boats I've acquired an MFA motor 457 RE540/1 4.5 - 15v and, at your suggestion, a Viper Marine 15 speed controller.
I  still have to look at arrangements fo controlling the steering, but my next purchase will probably be the remote TX/RX gear.The Planet T5 2.46 you mentioned looks a reasonable price to me but again,I'm not up to understanding all that the sales blurb is trying to tell me.I wonder could you reassure me that it is capable of carrying out the two functions of speed control and steering.Once it's in front of me I'm sure I'll be able to understand the connections etc.
Also information about which voltage battery to chose for the main propulsion seems a bit sketchy.I'm familiar with small 6v batteries from my tinkering with old motorbikes.Would one of these be suitable? I'm not proposing to beat any endurance records.
Thanks
Les
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2015, 02:22:03 pm »

http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=29064
The Planet T5 is not a full range outfit, only claiming a range of 150 metres for flying models - probably less for boats.  Depending on your intended sailing water, this might or might not be a problem.  It certainly has enough channels for control.  One channel is needed for forward/reverse/speed, one for steering left/right.  That leaves another three channels for future use.
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2015, 11:32:56 am »

Malcolm is correct about the range of the Planet T5 2.4 but at 150m I can hardly see a boat as small as the St Canute let alone recognise which way it is going and that includes down. Lead acid motor cycle batteries are not suitable. Use a NiMi 6v or 7.2. Voltage 3300 mAh is enough capacity for reasonable running time. Whichever you have space for. Have a look on the web at Component Shop or go to your local model shop.
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2015, 10:42:27 pm »

Thanks for those replies.
More grist to the mill,
Les
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2015, 08:50:51 am »

Graham,
If it's mechanical I can probably bodge it,buy my understanding of anything electrical could be written on the back of a Woodbine packet.
So can I ask you to be more specific re the battery.
Is re-chargeable O.K? In my experience (a good few years ago) re-chargeable batteries held a  very limited charge.
Even better would be if you could give me an example of what to choose from ebay(for instance).It doesn't necessarily have to be the cheapest.I'd be obliged for any sort of guide.
Thanks,
Les
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2015, 09:14:01 am »

Rechargeable batteries have moved on a bit. Nowadays they are almost essential being ale to outperform single use types almost everywhere where it matters for us.  Some like them for transmitters, but even that is a matter for debate.
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Captain Povey

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2015, 04:10:08 pm »

Les, The following will help you decide on a battery and Malcom is correct re-chargeables have come a long way since the early NiCad days. So one suggestion is Google 'Component shop'. On their website click on Batteries. There is a tab marked useful info it is well worth reading. Go back to 'Batteries' and click on 'radio control',  click on 'large power packs' choose 4.8v-6.0v, scroll to the one I described earlier 6v 3300 mAh. That is one option. You could do a similar search in 7.2v section so have a look there too. The choice is yours. Higher volts means more speed, higher mAh means more running time.You will also need a suitable charger. The one I use is also from Component shop. Go back to the home page and select chargers, then select radio control, scroll down to  'Intelligent 300/600 charger for NiCad/NiMh (uk plug). Others on here may prefer another one so again it is your choice. Graham.
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2015, 09:32:26 am »

Graham,
Thanks for that really clear & concise answer.
It's a great help.
Regards,
Les
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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2015, 11:15:51 am »

Hi Les

My set up is a  brass prop ,385 motor ,10amp speed controller with a 7.2v buggy pack battery. 

The battery choice is partly because I already had a couple and easy to fit/changee, It  works for me 

Happy New year

Spud
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2016, 11:06:34 am »

As things progress & while waiting for some parts to arrive.
The mount which came with the motor sets the motor itself too high to line up with the prop shaft.I've knocked up a new mount (see attached pic) out of a bit of 1.5mm stainless, and now the two shafts are as near in line as I can gauge by eye.
I've welded a small gusset on one side of the right angle of the  mount in order to give it a little bit of rigidity but am not sure that that was the right thing to do.A little bit of flexibility might be beneficial.I can soon grind it off.
I don't have the skills or equipment to line up both shafts precisely so it seems to me that a flexible coupling would be the answer.
It's length would obviously dictate the positioning of the motor.
The motor shaft is 3.2mm and the prop shaft 3.0mm.
I've searched a bit on the internet for any help and although there are couplings available none match the bore size I would need.
I presume other members must have had similar problems & I'd be very interested in learning how they overcame them.
Any dodges to increase the prop size dia at it's inboard end?I have a lathe,(Chinese,so no v.fine tolerances).
Thanks in anticipation,
Les
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derekwarner

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2016, 11:53:41 am »

Les......the motor you nominate [MFA RE 540] is listed here as 3.2mm diameter shaft .......the WEB site lists those HUDCO universal type couplings with inserts for 3.2 diameter shafts inserts [#MA5520] as well as inserts for 3.0 diameter shafts [#MA5565] ....... so with an  universal body [#MA5000] and for less than 7 quid you are on your way.....Derek
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portlineapp

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Re: Billings St.Canute
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2016, 04:47:29 pm »

Derek,
Thanks for that info.
I'd looked at the site before but the old grey matter didn't quite get a grip of what I was looking at.
Les
PS Passed 5 miles off Wollongong many times during the 50s & 60s on the way to our berth in Pyrmont but mostly never got past Montgomery's Hotel!
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