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Author Topic: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line  (Read 30113 times)

ballastanksian

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #100 on: February 07, 2017, 08:13:53 pm »

'Model ships from scratch' by Scott Robertson is a good book with many illustrations and descriptive bits on wooden ship rigging and masts etc.

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dlancast

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #101 on: February 07, 2017, 09:41:21 pm »

You are coming along just fine.  Rigging is always a challenge.  Books are a real help.  I use "Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1869" by Lees as my rigging bible.  Attached is a shot of rigging on my Frigate I recently completed.  Cheers!  Dennis
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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2017, 09:38:56 pm »

Thanks Dennis that looks awesome. I dream of being that good.
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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #103 on: August 06, 2017, 04:40:21 pm »


Hi all well I'm back on this but with a change of attack, it's now going to be a water line model, I didn't like the ships boats on the deck (take up too much space and I don't believe the ship would have operated like that) so it will be towed along side something like this.


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JimG

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2017, 07:40:56 pm »

The boats would normally be stacked vertically in the waist. They would normally only be towed when the ship was cleared for action to stop them being destroyed. They would be towed behind the ship not alongside. Towing alongside would lead to damage as the boat would hit the hull due to the wake and wave action.

Jim
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ballastanksian

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2017, 08:28:16 pm »

The officer's furniture was put in one of the boats again to prevent it becoming shrapnel when hit by shot.
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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2017, 08:17:19 pm »

Hi thanks guys I was going by this.
Quite right- ships in home waters would be easily provisioned from shore-based vessels, and the 17th Century English navy had a whole range of superbly named types such as Smaks, Galliots, Hoys, Pinks, Flyboats and Doggers for the purpose.
An English first rate of the 1670s would have had a Longboat (50ft), Pinnace (36ft) Skiff (27ft) and later on in the century, a jollyboat (19ft) too. How they were all stowed is still not really known as the records never bothered to indicate- as I said it appears a combination of beams or even spare topmasts could be rigged up on the discretion of individual captains- proper spar decks were in their infancy in this period, but not unknown and it appears Soleil Royale was fitted with something like this in the 1670s.
Remember, there was some reason for the longboats being such huge vessels- they were required to assist in maneouvering the ship, and the great size was partly dictated by the need to run out the Sheet anchor (the ship's largest, emergency anchor) which could weigh up to 3 tons and was perhaps as long as 18ft. Day to day, they were also used to replenish stores which are also very bulky. They were also expected to operate in all seas, under sail or oar. In times of battle ships' boats played a crucial role transferring messages and orders, and were actually part of the tactical operation- taking the ship under tow or bringing her head around in the case of damage to the sails. There are even some records of the boats been deliberately targeted- for example in 1673 Spragge's boat was sunk under him when attempting to transfer his flag from his damaged ship to another. All in all, they're an integral part of the ship's function!

[Album De Colbert- 1677- French 80 gun]
Just a thought- you could mount the longest boat on a separate stand, towed by the main ship? The tow rigging is quite simple- a line from the Stern quarter, and a steadying line running forwards to either the main mast chains or even the bulwark (the engraving I'm looking at isn't that clear). I don't think I've ever seen it done on a model.
Will
And since the base has been cut to size I'm stuck with it .
So.....
Which looks best sailing straight ahead or at a jaunty angle
IMG_20170808_5581516542785094824e.jpg
IMG_20170808_481141900730985.jpg
Sorry there were pages from a book in the post I copied but they don't seem to have copied
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ballastanksian

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #107 on: August 08, 2017, 08:19:21 pm »

Ah. Yes. If she is being 'victualled' or taking on crew etc then indeed, the boat would be alongside. Ships are not always sailing are they!

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warspite

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #108 on: August 09, 2017, 12:58:56 pm »

Nor are they permanently cleared for action either
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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #109 on: August 15, 2017, 08:36:26 pm »


Hi all well I've detailed up one of the ships boats (I suppose that means I will have to do the other one now)here's the before


Put the bathroom sealant on and started painting the tops of the waves


Loads more wave painting to do.
I've removed a couple of the guns to load the supplies into I understand they used some sort of pulley system from the spars to load the supplies with and I want to depict that has anyone got any detailed drawings of how this was achieved.





I've only used one of the port and starboard anchors, I'm hoping the other two are spares, I can't imagine they used all 4 anchors or am I wrong.
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dlancast

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #110 on: August 15, 2017, 10:36:15 pm »

Very nicely rendered.  I love the water technique.  Great job! :-))   Dennis
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ballastanksian

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #111 on: August 16, 2017, 10:26:04 pm »

It looks great Ken. As for using the spars as a derrick, a capstan was used to lift and lower via pulleys. I could not find any images of this on t'interweb.
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warspite

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #112 on: August 17, 2017, 12:36:22 pm »

There was a film on recently (well a couple of months ago) with Sir Alec Guinness, Dirk Bogarde and Antony Quayle, similar to a mutiny on the bounty style storyline - HMS Defiant or Damn the Defiant, in that film they used a spar from the main mast to lift supplies on board but I cannot find the clips to show it
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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #113 on: August 17, 2017, 07:29:57 pm »


Thanks mate will have to try and find the film.
Hi all well I've finally finished painting the waved (That's a lot of water) not sure if it needs more colour, I'm trying for the dark brackish water of a harbour.



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ballastanksian

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #114 on: August 17, 2017, 08:59:47 pm »

The chop adds lots of movement to the diorama and the reflection of the hull adds some depth as well.

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dlancast

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #115 on: August 18, 2017, 12:58:36 am »

I concure, the water looks "alive", like swirling currents.  Very nice sir.  Dennis
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JimG

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #116 on: August 18, 2017, 08:06:32 pm »

Here's the best that I have found so far, showing the use of the spard to lift a heavy weight. The two showing the lifting of a boat are quite clear but the third showing the lifting of a cannon was not so clear in the book.
Jim
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dlancast

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #117 on: August 18, 2017, 09:50:02 pm »

You are most correct on the method of hoisting ships boats and other cargo using lower main yards, block and tackle.  Here is a picture of my Frigate build where I show a long boat hoisted on the same setup as your drawings.  Dennis
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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2017, 05:35:20 pm »

Thanks guys very helpful

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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #119 on: August 25, 2017, 06:57:54 pm »


 all well I've fixed the foremast and strengthened it with a rod up the middle, making it a waterline model had an unexpected problem to it the main mast locates in an I shaped piece which is glued to the bottom of the hull to keep the mast central and true since I cut the bottom of the hull off obviously that locating area was no longer there also the mast was a lot higher than it should have been, luckily I still had the bottom of the hull that I cut off so I put the mast in it laid a rule across the hull and marked where it cam on the mast and cut that piece off but the mast is tapered at the bottom and the holes through the decks must be the same size as when I put the mast in it Leaned either way so I had a cunning idea and wrapped masking tape round the bottom of the mast till it was a snug fit in the bottom hole ( only problem now is the mast seems to lean sternwards) so now I just have that problem to sort and of course to make sure it is square with the center line as well.



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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #120 on: March 18, 2018, 09:01:05 pm »

Hi all well I've got this back out as Gandale (Alan on another forum posted an easy way to do the stays on this) (That's what's been scaring me from continuing this build) baring in mind this is my first attempt at doing them I'm quite chuffed with the result (obviously I've seen them done millions of times better but hey I can only get better from now on)


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kpnuts

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2018, 08:38:58 pm »


Hi all got this out to do some work on it. There seems to be a problem with the cheap paint I used on the base (Not had this problem before) the base started off dk blue but over time it seemed to go brackish


Which I didn't mind too much as it just looks like dirty harbour water but worryingly it is doing this from the edges and seems to be progressing inward


Do you think this will progress, if so should I stripp it all off (assuming I can) then start again, any suggestions.
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derekwarner

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2018, 10:51:57 pm »

It looks like an amazing depiction of wind swept turbulent water before a storm.....remember the colour of the water was influenced by the sky.....

My vote would be to keep it as is :-))

Derek
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ballastanksian

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2018, 10:14:54 pm »

It does look very realistic Ken, I mean as real as I can remember seeing water created in larger scales.
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dlancast

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Re: Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2018, 12:39:00 am »

I think you are concern about the discoloring creeping in from the edges??  Possibly paint those areas to blend them in to the rest.  Seal the edges somehow, epoxy or varnish?  Frankly, I agree with the others, what you have looks very real.  Cheers, Dennis
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