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Author Topic: Retro fitting navigation lights  (Read 3547 times)

Bob K

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Retro fitting navigation lights
« on: January 19, 2016, 02:50:20 PM »

Fitting navigation lights must be a lot easier if they can be incorporated during the build.  In my case I am trying to retro fit them to an older model.  One of the trickiest operations I have ever done, routing and fixing micro wiring through and under various almost inaccessible parts of the superstructure.  Been on it three days already.

Does anyone know what size wiring the smaller types of 3V 100mA Graupner nav. lights come with?  Finer than thread, and with apparently no comparable wire size available to extend it.

The ship is my 1905 HMS Skirmisher, so have 1/96 lamps that look like period oil lanterns.  The red and green mounted on the bridge wings as running lights.  I also have two rear facing white lanterns, one above the other on the aft mast.  These two lights as indicators for bilge pump operation, which will saves me having to watch for water venting from a dummy porthole.  I just replaced the bilge pump with a different type so decided to add lighting at the same time.  Both pairs wired in series for 6V.

Any hints and tips to make such retro fitting easier would be most useful.

Cheers,    Bob K
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Brian60

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 04:41:09 PM »

Ebay for copper motor winding wire. Its as fine as you can get, also it is enamel/polyerethane coated so you don't have to worry about insulation. Its cheap, I bought some to do external wiring up the mast of my POSH Venture build (check out the link below) I got about a 350metres for about a fiver, ridiculous as I only wanted a few metres in total  %%

Bob K

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 04:50:25 PM »

I never thought of enamelled wire, thanks for that.  Silly thing is I have actually got some.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Brian60

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 05:00:02 PM »

I never thought of enamelled wire, thanks for that.  Silly thing is I have actually got some.



 :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))

Bob K

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 05:27:50 PM »

I still reckon period warship rigging, of which I've done a lot, is far less fiddly.  Glad I opted to avoid LED's as they would have shone unrealistically bright for a 1905 vessel.

I hope to have it on the water "All lit up" by Thursday, weather permitting.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Brian60

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 08:44:11 PM »

You could have gone with yellow led's and then underdrive them (less voltage) and they would give a suitable incandescent glow more in keeping with the period,  rather than the full on white light of white led's. Same with the red and green if you were adding nav lights, although the green seems to wash out toward the yellow spectrum when underdriven.

cos918

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 09:01:51 PM »

Hello
I to am adding navigation light to my model . I see you sad you dont want LED but have you seen the size of these LED. you can get them in warm white so you dont get that blue/white


john


 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201482969362?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=500662844008&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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david48

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 12:25:14 AM »

As Brian says enamaed  wire , I striped a hard drive out of a old computer thers more meters in them than you will need . I used it to put 13 wires up the inside of a 2mm OD brass tube on the mast of my  Fairmount  build
David
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Bob K

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 06:37:17 AM »

To simulate oil lanterns in period ships the Action P90 from Component shop gives a very realistic flicker effect for either bulbs or LED's.  A friend at our club has one fitted and it looks very good.  Somehow LED's don't look right, even dimmed.

http://www.componentshop.co.uk/p90-twin-flicker.html

On my original question, what size wire do the Graupner navigation lights use?  Makes 7/0,2 look like starter motor leads.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Bob K

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 10:30:24 AM »

Still can't find any tech description of the wire used, but it appears to measure 7/0,07 for the navigation light leads, and 1/0,2 for the individual grain of wheat bulbs.  Those should both be equivalent to 200 mA rating, ie no more than two 100 mA bulbs per wire return.  I needed to confirm the actual wire size, and hence it's rating, to check if it was OK to run two in series using their own leads and/or use a single common return lead.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Mark T

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 11:29:55 AM »

As Brian says enamaed  wire , I striped a hard drive out of a old computer thers more meters in them than you will need . I used it to put 13 wires up the inside of a 2mm OD brass tube on the mast of my  Fairmount  build
David
David do you know the diameter of the wire that you used?
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TailUK

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 12:17:14 PM »

You might find this useful; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COPPER-TAPE-4MM-FOR-DOLLS-HOUSE-LIGHTING-/131686880529?hash=item1ea9265511:g:3hgAAOSwkZhWSMD9

You can lay it on surfaces and paint over it.  A cheaper alternative can be found at B&Q.  A roll of "Anti Slug" tape is exactly the same stuff and more easily available!
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Bob K

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 12:54:03 PM »

That tape looks ideal if you are incorporating wiring during a build.  It can be run under the decks and pairs of leads routed down through superstructure as it is being built. Would make soldering easy.
Not so useful for retro fitting to an existing intricate model.  I will bear in mind for the next time I start from scratch.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

david48

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 02:53:32 PM »

No Mark I don't I think I have some left you can have ,it's about the same as the micro LED maby not as thick .
David
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Subculture

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 04:57:43 PM »

LED's can look identical to filament lamps, it just depends on the type you select e.g. colour temperature.

the advantage with LED's is they require such miniscule current compared with filament lamps, you can run them with wire more akin to the thickness of human hair.

Bob K

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2016, 08:47:40 AM »

When building a ship always consider whether you will want lighting from the start, because retro fitting can be a real pain.  Picture below illustrates how fiddly wiring access can be, especially when the nearest inside hull access is abaft the fore funnel. 
All part of an upgrade to change the sealing / retaining method for lift off decks using magnets and MIL grade 1/16 thick foam strip which involved planning 1 mm from underside of decks.  Also fitted a better bilge pump.



Light looks over bright in the picture as it was still dark when I took it this morning. I have been sailing this at least once a week for almost four years so looking a bit high mileage now.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Brian60

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2016, 09:09:09 AM »

Someone was querying wire thickness. The two bobbins I bought from ebay for motor winding were marked, 0.25mm and 0.1mm. How many can you bunch together into a 1mm space! They don't take much room at all and easily handle the voltages needed for led's albeit I only couple mine in pairs anyway.

derekwarner

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Re: Retro fitting navigation lights
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2016, 10:12:10 AM »

Ken...you must learn that Mrs Churchill's pink make-up rouge is not designed for model ship building  %) Derek
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