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Author Topic: Twin schottel drive configuration  (Read 3281 times)

portside II

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Twin schottel drive configuration
« on: January 17, 2016, 10:30:57 PM »

Over xmas i have stripped down my SDM tug (manoverable should be spelt manoeuvrable  ;) ) as it was set up in tractor configuration with both drives at the front and a large fixed keel at the rear, this would alow the tug to have plenty of power but not the ability to move in all directions.
So the new hull was made and the drives fitted off set at either end with a wire frame around each as protection (and a stand), also a small fixed keel was fitted.
Now comes the dilemma control !, do i fit it out as totally individual like 2 separate steering and throttles or link either or both together to get the best control of the tug.
On the old system it was easy both steering and throttle were linked , but this is totally different. I know once i get it on the water i may prefer one way more than another but i would like the opinion of other users to guide me on the preferred path.
Thank you in advance
daz
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inertia

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 11:17:06 PM »

Daz
Your only choice is how to connect up the servos and receiver, and maybe also how to program a mixer. You won't have to change anything of the hardware installation, so I'd suggest you try both options and see which one you get on best with. Like using a rudder/motor mixer, what suits some doesn't suit others, and you won't know which unless you've tried both.
You can always try them out in private.  ;)

Dave M
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Tug Chief

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2016, 06:42:39 AM »

Daz,

I have an SDM and after many trials and deliberations there is only one way to set these up, and that is exactly as the real things are............................

On the left hand stick you have the forward unit, up for ahead and down for astern obviously. When you push the stick to the left, the unit should turn to the right and thus push the bow to port, and vice versa.

When looking at the aft unit this has to be reversed, forward and backwards is the same but when you push the stick to the left the unit rotates to the left and pushes the stern to starboard.

This then allows you when running ahead to drive using both units, but normally only steering with one, when you push both levers over in ever direction the modes will turn that direction right the way through to a very rapid spinning on the spot!

To side step (with the units running ahead) to port you oppose the units (Left hand stick to left/port & Right hand stick to right/starboard).  To side step to starboard you impose the units (Left hand stick to right/starboard & Right hand stick to left/port).  The above maneuvers can all be achieved in reverse by running the units astern but you will find that you lose at least 30% thrust doing it this way.

I have been driving ASD tugs since the 90's and have been onboard a SDM, let me assure you this is not an easy model to drive, but when you master it they are the most maneuverable forms of tug on the market today.

Darren.
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 09:07:12 AM »

I can't describe how I set up my SDM without first thinking about it.


The left throttle is for the port stern drive, and the right throttle is for the starboard bow drive.
The left joystick is, left and right for the stern drive, and
down is left, and up is right for the forward drive.
That is the way I set it up, and learned to drive, so it works for me.


I geared the steering so that there is enough throw to steer a barge when tied up to the side of the tug.
 :-)

Tug Chief

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 10:55:45 AM »

Hi Umi,

That sounds like your set up is arranged for sideways running permanently?  You lost me at this point;

down is left, and up is right for the forward drive.

If it works for you that is all that matters I guess!

Darren.
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portside II

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 02:26:51 PM »

Some positive answers  thank you , both different but both working for each modeller.
I will have to get the boat on the water and have a go in different configurations, like the ones above and see which one works best for me.
I will have 4 12v 7ah in the tug all connected together which will give me plenty of time to get used to it.
I will get back here when i have a go.
thank you.
daz
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2016, 05:13:31 PM »

Hi Umi,

That sounds like your set up is arranged for sideways running permanently?  You lost me at this point;

down is left, and up is right for the forward drive.

If it works for you that is all that matters I guess!

Darren.
No it runs forward and reverse just fine.
But at a hundred yards, it is difficult to tell what is low speed.  %)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg4lC3JYabM
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Tug Chief

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 06:57:45 PM »

That was a fantastic effort at pushing that barge such a great distance Umi..............................Mind you, may want to put a few more fenders on the bow for coming alongside that hard! :-)

Darren.
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portside II

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 09:13:23 PM »

Oh dear launch date has been set back a bit as i was trying to tidy up the wiring and managed to short out the control board  :embarrassed: ,
no flash band phutt but i now have a dead esc (electronize fr30) , strange the other on was connected and is ok.
So a slight change of lay out is under way as i have a couple of ACtion esc's to play with  :-)) , the first is a P98 which i will connect both motors together,
and the other is a P94 which will allow me to either mix the motors or use them seperatly.
Time to play on the bench.
daz
ps the good thing about the ACtion esc's is if i break them Dave will fix em for me  %) .
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derekwarner

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 10:57:43 PM »

Daz....is there such a thing as a 'battery isolator' for model applications?......

ie., as used in the real world on most equipment that is fitted with large <*< capacity battery sources.....

Is there anything special about these full life sized switches apart from having a big red switch/knob and a padlock lockout hoop?...or is there some electrical functionality within the battery isolator itself?.........

Just checked ACTion site, cannot see any item but a simple toggle switch on the + leg out.......in the real world, we have discipline's [safety procedures] that we must obey [or else <*<] ...you just may have to install such an isolator and institute you own home model shipyard protocols............

I am sure we all have been down a similar path......Derek
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Navy2000

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 11:43:24 PM »

My question here is: Does any one make a control unit that can be installed into a radio for the drive units. I would like to do one of these but have it work as it does in the actual tugs. Otherwise you can rotate the control unit 120 degrees and the drive unit will do the same. I have seen others make their own units. This may be a good marking item, but it would have to stay a reasonable price, after all many folks would have to buy two units.


Duane
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2016, 03:23:21 AM »

My question here is: Does any one make a control unit that can be installed into a radio for the drive units. I would like to do one of these but have it work as it does in the actual tugs. Otherwise you can rotate the control unit 120 degrees and the drive unit will do the same. I have seen others make their own units. This may be a good marking item, but it would have to stay a reasonable price, after all many folks would have to buy two units.


Duane


There is a German company Imth.de, that produces a board and sensor that will
allow you to program the board to run 360 and throttle in all sectors.
A magnet is set on a following gear to match the drive rotation. The sensor is
set above this gear, and connected to the circuit board. The set up procedure
teaches the board the interaction between your transmitter, drive direction, and throttle.
Once programmed the initial movement of the joystick in any direction will rotate the
drive to thrust in that direction. Any additional movement of the joystick will control throttle.  :-))
.There is also a joystick cover, that is designed to rotate a throttle handle over the
transmitter joystick, and apply direction and throttle to the stick in a realistic manner.
http://www.imth.de/index.php/en/home


Gazou has also shared a similar system out of France, but no one has
brought it to the retail market yet. So far it seems to only be an experiment, and
not yet in production.  {:-{
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52686.0.html

portside II

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2016, 07:38:31 PM »


There is a German company Imth.de, that produces a board and sensor that will
allow you to program the board to run 360 and throttle in all sectors.
A magnet is set on a following gear to match the drive rotation. The sensor is
set above this gear, and connected to the circuit board. The set up procedure
teaches the board the interaction between your transmitter, drive direction, and throttle.
Once programmed the initial movement of the joystick in any direction will rotate the
drive to thrust in that direction. Any additional movement of the joystick will control throttle.  :-))
.There is also a joystick cover, that is designed to rotate a throttle handle over the
transmitter joystick, and apply direction and throttle to the stick in a realistic manner.
http://www.imth.de/index.php/en/home


Gazou has also shared a similar system out of France, but no one has
brought it to the retail market yet. So far it seems to only be an experiment, and
not yet in production.  {:-{
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,52686.0.html
Hi Umi the German system looks like a lot of time and effort has been put into it , but the modification to your tx looks complicated , unless they supply one already done.
The ACtion twin programable esc will do nearly the same but without the continues 360 deg rotation as you would require modified servo's to be able to rotate without end stops. At the moment i have mine set up with a single esc (30a)for power on 1 stick and seperate direction control on each stick, but with the ACtion P94 i can opperate both pods individually.
Producing a bespoke pod would be great, a bit out of my league but great.
daz
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Twin schottel drive configuration
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2016, 09:03:56 PM »

You don't need the transmitter modification.
The IMTH system will work using just the joystick.
And it can be ganged together as in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-z-mKjl6z8&list=FLKMwv7sXw6Ny9DnLFj0semg&index=8


Or two units can be combined for separate functions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHN9-RssyOc&list=FLKMwv7sXw6Ny9DnLFj0semg&index=4
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