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Author Topic: Has the art of model building died?  (Read 23757 times)

Paul Swainson

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2016, 02:08:21 PM »

Well I started building Airfix kits as a lad, then went and played with the real thing and then came back to building kits, first the Perkasa then a Deans Marine kit and then a scratch build with fiberglass hull, then I have gone to the real deal with the building of an 8 foot aircraft carrier.   Doing two one with a fiberglass hull and a full hull being make from blanks and frame.  My build log for these is on here. (taken a break for work with the RBL Scotland) Will be back to the shed in a few days time when storms have passed over and the sun is out again.


The skill has come from reading and watching and doing work and making it work for me.   It does not come easy, you have to work at it.  Show are the best where you can put on displays along for people see the building/making of models; taking place and they can see first hand the results of the work.   They too may start with a semi kit and work they way through.  It does cost money to buy tools and equipment and also the need  to read and take on board what has to to be done to achieve the end result.


The Young ones of today are not into this kind of work now but as they grow older they may take it up in later life as a good hobby. 
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Norseman

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2016, 02:13:49 PM »

One route into scratchbuilding (for those with time enough) is kit building. It promotes confidence and skill learning. Then watching some excellent builds here leads to dipping ones toes into the deeper waters of a scratch build. What is almost certain is that the majority of builds never get published as build logs here for many reasons. I really do work at a snails pace and only when work and lately health allows.

I applaude all those who take the time to publish their builds (scratch, kit, refurbs) because they provide so much  enjoyment and encouragement to the likes of me. My first scratch hull will start when I become time rich and retire  ;)  O0 and that procrastination is mainly because I lack all confidence about getting it right.

Dave
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2016, 02:29:02 PM »

Good point about reading Paul, you can learn so much that way but so many people seem not to want to bother. I would always recommend a new entrant to the hobby to get hold of a couple of good general books and read through them. It is much more effective than simply going online and asking how do I do this and that which often results in a response which might answer your specific question but gives you no real understanding of the underlying principles underlying it. For example, you can copy one of the excellent ACTion wiring diagrams without having the slightest understanding of why it works so you have actually learned nothing and cannot adapt it to a similar but modified setup.

Also, having done a bit of preliminary reading and research means that you can ask more intelligent questions with a greater likelihood of getting a helpful reply. The phrase 'God helps those who help themselves' doesn't just apply to the Deity and burglars.

Colin
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SailorGreg

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2016, 02:40:25 PM »

Has the art of model building died?  No it hasn't.  It isn't the same art as it was 20, 30, 40 years ago, but the skill and application is still there.  Many modellers of past generations scratch built because they had no option; there was not the range of high quality hulls and kits available that we have today.  I bet many of them would have snapped up a ready made hull if they could.

But that's not the point.  The learning, the development of skill and the working through of problems is the same whatever source you start with.  Just because a model is scratch built doesn't mean the builder is inherently more skilful or produces a better model than the builder of a kit.  Consider one of Glynn Guest's simple models* which is scratch built from the ground up, possibly including the rudder, the prop shaft and tube, and compare that with a model of HMS Dreadnought from the Deans Marine kit.  Which demands the greater skill, application, problem solving etc?  I know which one appears more daunting to me.  (raflaunches may wish to comment!)  And different people favour different skills needed to complete a model; some are superb woodworkers, others wonderful miniature engineers, others love the painting, weathering and finishing, others want to conjour the most performance from the hull and machinery.  Yes, I can build a hull - I've done it - but if my forte is detailing and painting I might choose to start from a good quality commercial hull and spend my time on the parts I enjoy the most.  What is wrong with that?

Happy modelling - scratch or kit!  :-))

*  I am not intending to denigrate Glynn Guest, who has probably singlehandedly encouraged more folk into model boat building than all the kit manufacturers put together!

TomHugill

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2016, 02:50:42 PM »

I've read through many builds over the weekend and all seem to be built from kits.

Does anyone scratchbuild anymore? Can you honestly say you have built a model yourself when all you have done is assemble a kit of parts by following a set of instructions, instructions written by someone more knowledgeable?

Is it because people don't want to spend the time or have the patience to actually cut/sand/file fiddly bits out of raw stock and its so much easier to splurge the cash and buy ready made?

Is it because kits nowadays far exceed anything that the average bloke could ever hope to attain themselves out in the shed?

I'd be interested to know the


I know it's phrased as a question but what a load of condecending rubbish. Obviously you've not had to build some of the kits that are knocking about. The implication seems to  be if you don't scratch build then you're not a proper model maker.

Most model boat kits aren't like your average tamiya static kit which fits together beautifully. The quality of the fit and finish is often poor and there's masses of rework bending fitting, filling and sanding to make something decent.. Certainly not "sticking a few bits together", in fact I see scratch building a an extension of the skills people gain building kits.

You also seem to be forgetting that building the thing is only part of the whole, you still have to fit out drive train, hook up the electrics and most importantly paint the thing, scratch built or no.

Not everyone is retired and has the time, money and workshop facilities to fully scratch build a grp hull, these are skills that people develop over many years. Some people enjoy the sailing part too , I see no shame in getting to that stage a little quicker.

I have a question back to you Brian, I spent a good part of last year building a Graupner moonraker kit, there are I would think several hundred hours getting it completed to a finish I was happy with, however it was from a kit. Does this make me less of a modeller than some one who has built for example something from a Glynn Guest plan but is scratch built?

IMO this is a hobby, it's purpose is enjoyment for the individual , we need more people involved not less and if kits and artr out there which help then that's got to be good.

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U-33

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2016, 03:59:03 PM »

I wonder what my MotorFlote build would be classed as...it was built from styrene, some of it cnc cut for me, some of it cut from basic sheet. A lot of it was built and/or altered from that precious 'stuff' that we all keep just in case it comes in handy for something. I no longer have the tools, the equipment, or the space needed to even contemplate scratchbuilding anything any longer, plus having regular meetings with my good old friend Arther Ritis, limits me to what I can do nowadays.


But, despite a lot of swearing, and remaking several parts of it,  I really enjoyed putting it together...it wasn't a kit as such, it wasn't scratchbuilt as such, it was a mix of the two.


Surely that's why we all took up this hobby...to enjoy it?
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~~~~~~~  "Motorflotes need love too...."  ~~~~~~~

MotorFlote build log : http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15222.0.html

Howard

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2016, 04:06:40 PM »

I like to say it's not what we build or how we build them but as we all still seam to keep building them we are all getting the same thing out of them ENJOYMENT best thing I ever did.


                                    Regards Howard. 
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BFSMP

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2016, 05:05:08 PM »

Oh!
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BFSMP

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2016, 05:08:24 PM »

You assemble a kit you do not scratchbuild it.


I am sorry, but I have to disagree most strongly with that statement as to the point of "assembly". Surely one builds a kit just as one builds a scratch built model.

I have looked at the model of the fire tug Avenger that my friend was sent as a present by Metcalf Mouldings just before Mr Metcalf retired and there is a great deal of cutting and fitting to the model.......far from "assembling" a kit such as I did in my youth from Airfix or Revelle. And there is a great deal of thinking about what you are doing in order to cut, fit and build a model as complicated as that model is.

I feel that your  comment about "assembling" kit would indeed upset, and possibly anger some people who I find make stunning models from kits.

One only has to look at the build of the Jan Tug boat to see that.

I am a person that lets the world go by and not take offence at trivial things in life but I do think that your comments about kit building were a little unfounded and uncalled for.

Jim.


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joppyuk1

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2016, 05:09:39 PM »

By coincidence the Comment page of the new Railway Modeller concerns the same situation in that hobby, where these days we " simply have to open the box and arrange the fantastic products on our baseboards - even these are available ready made........"; so it's not just boaters. I must admit that I find hull building very daunting, though I have a friend who seems to whip them up with no effort. Each to his own I suppose, as long as there is water and boaters to use it we'll continue.
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Netleyned

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2016, 05:17:58 PM »

Building or assembling?
Brian, I know, has just acquired a laser cutter and
has cut out the frames for his new build.
I would say he has assembled his hull from the cut parts.
Scratch assembling is the new technique if you own a cnc or laser cutter.
Even a water jet cutter I may add. %% %% %% %%


Ned
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Brian60

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2016, 05:35:47 PM »


I know it's phrased as a question but what a load of condecending rubbish.

Funny that, especially as I don't recall ever seeing a post of any of your builds. You seem to comment on many topics but never post a photo, build log or anything.

Now that is condescending of me, also note I spelled it correctly.

barriew

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2016, 05:38:28 PM »

Please check out Stans Schutze build under warships and military.This model started life has kit model.On doing research it was found to some parts needed putting in the bin about 80 percent. To create a accurate model it Involved a lot of scratch building see pictures on post mentioned enjoy.

Stan
Stan
I'm in exactly the same situation with my current build - mainly because its an old kit and the material was not very good to start with I suspect. However it was cheap and gave me an opportunity to build a model that was not otherwise available.


http://www.thercmodelboatforum.com/t1235-polish-pilot-boat


It is quite likely that my next model will be built from plans, but could equally be a kit if I find something I like - and can afford!!


Barrie
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Brian60

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2016, 05:39:22 PM »

Building or assembling?
Brian, I know, has just acquired a laser cutter and
has cut out the frames for his new build.
I would say he has assembled his hull from the cut parts.
Scratch assembling is the new technique if you own a cnc or laser cutter.
Even a water jet cutter I may add. %% %% %% %%


Ned

That is true Ned and to some extent it is like building a kit. But the skill here comes in being able to use new technology to draw or design the parts. The laser is nothing more than a expensive coping/vibrosaw, instead of a blade it uses a beam of light. But what it does do is allow hitherto unknown accuracy that I could never match with a saw or scalpel.

BFSMP

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2016, 05:48:21 PM »

Now that is condescending of me, also note I spelled it correctly.

It was only two days ago Sir that you were asking another question in a round about way and that was what to do about the sale of your property in this country and asking advice from members on here.

Now you are insulting members?

I am shocked!.

Jim.
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Netleyned

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2016, 06:05:44 PM »

You are right there Brian,
The computer guided laser is
a darn sight more accurate than
the ageing shaky hand  :-))


Ned
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Brian60

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2016, 06:36:11 PM »

It was only two days ago Sir that you were asking another question in a round about way and that was what to do about the sale of your property in this country and asking advice from members on here.

Now you are insulting members?

I am shocked!.

Jim.

I give as I receive. if people want to insult me, as you have done in two posts on here, then I reserve the right to insult back.  Once again I will spell it out.

I posed a legitimate question, I can't post it many more ways for you to possibly understand, the art of skilled model making from scratch using tools and materials is dying out to the kits that are available. With it goes the knowledge of how to do certain things. Rather than answer reasonably not only 'ships' but yourself took it as a personal affront on yourself.

If you could not answer with anything other than perceived outrage, than you should not have commented at all. If you set about insulting someone you cannot do so with impunity in my world.

As to asking advice on selling a property, I did nothing of the kind. What I did do is lay out the audacity of some people. Would you go into a shop and say I want to buy that model kit, but I want 12% off the price because I want to make changes to it? No? so why should someone expect 8 grand of a selling price because they want to change things? You buy something for a set price, if you want to alter afterwards that is up to you, you do not ask the seller to pay for those changes for you - or maybe you do in your world?

John W E

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2016, 06:49:24 PM »

hi all

rather than turning this to a slanging match, we will get back on topic  O0

If it were not for those folk who build from kits of all descriptions we would have far less manufacturers in the modelling field.

Especially in model boats.

As far as scratch building goes, that itself has leant itself to a new definition, due to the fact that there are a lot more products on the market today to help create moulds etc., cut things from wood / steel using a computer programme and also the new one 3D printing so its progress in the field of scratch building.

Last but not least about reading of how to do stuff on this forum there is a master class build where there are several scratch build and several semi-scratch built models to help the beginner but how many people actually go and look at those topics :-)

aye

John
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radiojoe

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2016, 07:06:30 PM »

I wouldn't say scratch building is dying out, I for one have progressed into scratch building after first building three Deans kits and anybody who knows Deans kits would know you don't just assemble them, I learned a lot from these and progressed into what I call semi-scratch building because I use ready made hulls, but have advanced into making all my own fittings and casting, I may eventually take on a total scratch, and of course there are some amazing scratch builders right here on the forum. :-))
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TomHugill

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2016, 07:35:43 PM »

Funny that, especially as I don't recall ever seeing a post of any of your builds. You seem to comment on many topics but never post a photo, build log or anything.

Now that is condescending of me, also note I spelled it correctly.

Hi Brian,

I have actually posted quite a few builds on here, but as there mainly gin palaces or subs I can understand that you've not seen them.

Just because some one disagrees with your views doesn't mean they're insulting you.  I was merely giving this thinly veiled dig:


Can you honestly say you have built a model yourself when all you have done is assemble a kit of parts by following a set of instructions, instructions written by someone more knowledgeable?

the respect I felt it deserves. After all if I hadn't built my model it would still be a load of (poorly fitting parts) in a box in the loft.

The original question could have been asked without this, which (as you pointed out a lot of us build kits) was bound to rub a few the wrong way.

Regarding the house, I believe what you call "audacity of the buyer"most people know as "haggling" I believe it's been use the world over (by most of us in fact) for quite some time, last time I checked a seller could always decline the offer....
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kinmel

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2016, 08:24:51 PM »

It always worries me when someone decides their way is the only true way and all other routes to the same result must be unfulfilling, or even cheating in some way.  Threads such as those always end up as a slanging match.

A hobby is something you enjoy and provides you with personal satisfaction and pride.

Something so worthwhile to you, that you do it again.

So you build models in a way that meets your needs and let others follow their own path to happiness.
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Stan

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2016, 08:54:48 PM »

Does it matter if you build kits or scratch build the outcome is still the same a finished model that you are proud of. We have to remember that not every modeller builder has the skills to scratch build.My experience with kit models is some were along the line you may have make a new part or in my case rebuild parts of the kit.The outcome kit model with scratch built parts

Stan
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boathound

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2016, 08:59:35 PM »

What is the "art of model building"? Is it the same as designing? Creating your own plans then building from your own materials? I think a lot has to do with life style and commitments and practical reasons. For example if you live in a flat with other people how will they react to the smell of glue/fiber glass/paint? We don't all have sheds or shed loads of time. Some of tools required to build from scratch are also expensive and where to store them if you have limited space?
Its also subject matter, for example I love freighters but find it very hard to find any in kit form that interest me. I'm struggling away with a Deans Liberty which I've done a lot of changes on as I wish to show it as a Greek tramp ship. I started in Sept 2014, just got round to painting the hull now. Its' an ancient kit I brought on E-Bay for just over 100, some bits were missing and I reckon I've spent more on paint and bits for it than I did on buying it! But sometimes I get home from work so tired I just can't face doing work on it. I'd say my masking off of the solid rail bulwarks was an art form in itself before I sprayed the deck. Wish I could post a picture but have no means of taking one, yep I don't even own a mobile phone....
Anyway like I said I like freighters, especially modern ones so my next build may well be a hull from Orion moldings and (gulp) I will try to do the rest myself? Or I could get that rather nice new Deans kit  Mercandian President. I could never build my own hull or cast my own bits for the reasons I mentioned above. If I had the means and the time then yeah, I'd give it a go.
I have been to clubs and ponds with an ARTR and yes other older people have often looked down their nose at me, frankly I don't give a damn. I love my Graupner Sharnhorst, getting all the electronics in that crappy access was a bitch (just ask Shipmate 60!) I added loads of detail myself and found a way to stop the nasty wooden veneer used as decking from bubbling and splitting. Could I have found the time/space/tools to build one from scratch-not a chance.
Would I get more approval from the pond admirals if I turned up with a tupperware tub, stuck a motor in it and sprayed it black to resemble a barge? Probably, after all anything is better than "modeling by checkbook" (yeah I've had than sneered at me) Trouble is barges bore me as do the pond admirals, I'm just here to have fun and enjoy messing about with boats no matter how they are put together. Kids come up to me and ask me about the ship and I tell them about the Channel Dash and the battle of North Cape, they don't care how the model was built either.
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2016, 09:08:15 PM »




 :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))




Ned



Definitely yes.

The question is based on a false premise, namely everyone who takes up model boating, has the requisite skills to scratch build.

I know of people that for the life of them cannot read a plan, let alone model boat plans. Others have no engineering knowledge or equipment, be it lathe or simple drill to fabricate parts. The list goes on.

The fact that kits are far more prevalent and varied is testimony to their popularity.

What puts me off is the so called scratch builders,  who use expensive equipment such as lathes and all manner of tools that are not readily available to all, budget wise and experience to use that equipment. and then make light of work required to build the model.

My definition of a scratch builder is one who builds from bits and pieces, adapts readily available bits and pieces, such as bullet cases for bollards, to produce a good looking representation of the original not an engineering masterpiece built by an engineer.
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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2016, 10:26:59 PM »

Be it scratch built or "assembled" from a kit


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