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Author Topic: Has the art of model building died?  (Read 23756 times)

warspite

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2016, 03:12:42 PM »

I'm over 50, I havn't scratchbuilt completely (the cardboard boat is the only one), time, money, space, all are my enemies, as none of them will let me move on, when I retire I will probably start finishing off what I started, until the next calamity, as I said, it's nice to start now - but life gets in the way, sometimes retirement is the only time to start - for the few of us that fall into this category, lol
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radiojoe

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2016, 06:28:21 PM »

I build my first warship in November 2010 having retired that April,  given the amount of time I spend on them I wouldn't have attempted the sort of detailed models I do now while I was at work, I did the odd RC model tank, truck etc. when time allowed, so it doesn't surprise me that a lot or modelers are retired, 
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Positive

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2016, 06:58:51 PM »

I scratchbuild, and have done so for many years!   Don't have the money, space, time or patience to make kits! :o
Only build small static ones though!   Did a build log on here for the 1947 cargo liner Arabia recently!
Bob

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radiojoe

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2016, 07:07:39 PM »

And very nice too  :-)) :-))
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Unsinkable 2

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2016, 07:34:11 PM »

I would say that within my span of experience, full scratchbuilding in model boating was always less common than either building from kits or using a semi kit e.g. a preformed hull.

I would also say that over time that the numbers are dwindling, those that still practice this craft are not in the flush of youth, and I think in the next decade or two there will be a much sharper decline.

Traditional craft skills aren't taught in schools, and even when I was at school back in the 1980's it wasn't taught very well, with more of an emphasis on design than acquiring competency with hand and power tools, and a reluctance to permit use of any machine tool without one on one supervision.

If you want to see a continuation of traditional skills and model construction, then really you need to think about mentoring some younger people, assuming you can find some interested enough in the first place.


My reply was going to be so similar to this that it was easier to quote.........
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Nemo

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2016, 09:12:35 PM »

Springers Rule - OK?   ;) :-)) ;) :-))

Now you're talking scratch! No sign of scratch redundancy here.  O0
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Hande

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2016, 11:36:56 PM »


I hope I'm not valuated/dismissed by my building from a kit.
I admire scratch builders, but I'm not there myself (yet?)


1. it's a matter of learning curve X persistence. I assume, one typically begins with kits and may be proceeds to scratch building
1b I suspect, only few start with scratch building nowadays


2. it's a matter of challenge X skills. My kit with no instructions, only drawings and pre-cut pieces, is a major challenge for my skills (as many have seen by my questions)


3. Most of all, the sense of personal achievement is in my mind the most important factor. How is it important, if it is attained through scratch building or by building from a kit?


Yes - if I ever finish - I will proudly and honestly say that I have built it. And honestly say that I got the parts from a shop. This hobby is very personal thing to me and I cannot relate with competitions for "best boat", if that is the topic of this discussion.


There are other newbies in the forum, too. So, maybe it's not "people" but individuals in different phases of the learning curve and with different ambitions.


I have found it most comforting and encouraging with the support of Mayhemers, and I have felt welcome with my kit project  :-)


...now Somewhat disconcerted by this post.


So, here's my answer.



I've read through many builds over the weekend and all seem to be built from kits.

Does anyone scratchbuild anymore? Can you honestly say you have built a model yourself when all you have done is assemble a kit of parts by following a set of instructions, instructions written by someone more knowledgeable?

Is it because people don't want to spend the time or have the patience to actually cut/sand/file fiddly bits out of raw stock and its so much easier to splurge the cash and buy ready made?

Is it because kits nowadays far exceed anything that the average bloke could ever hope to attain themselves out in the shed?

I'd be interested to know the answers.
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Norseman

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2016, 11:47:16 PM »

I have found it most comforting and encouraging with the support of Mayhemers,

The nice thing about Mayhem is that everybody is welcome and appreciated Hande. On a good day we can even have open discussions like this and agree or disagree quite nicely.

Dave
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ballastanksian

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2016, 11:51:43 PM »

That is what I love about this hobby, there seems to be no real deep set nastiness. Perhaps I have been blessed by joining a very friendly club, but even this topic that has got heated at times has people who have later complimented one or more protagonists for their work.

Not to mention the sharing of information some of which has been asked and answered before and elsewhere on this forum.

No matter how we do our hobby, scrathc build, stick kits together, refurb second hand models, throw models in the air and stick the parts back together in a Dada'ist sculpture, do it, enjoy it and share it.
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roycv

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2016, 12:15:04 AM »

HI I agree there is much honesty in building a model, salesman sell blue sky, but we do the real thing and there are not many of us left.
Any building is good building, many started from kits, it comes down to what is readily available.  If you need all the bits together then a kit is great.
One of my early models was a scratch built hull and I found that the fittings kit for the Manufacturers kit was so cheap it was not worth trying to make my own.
regards Roy
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irishcarguy

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #85 on: February 13, 2016, 12:38:08 AM »

What annoys me the most with the so called "scratch " builders is the superior air adapted by some of (not all) these self made "EXPERTS" Then we have the "rivet counters" & the historical gang that are walking encyclopedia's of how, when, & where, what colour, and don't forget the launch date & day. Having seen some of their creations on this forum, lots can't even solder very well & worse most have an incorrect drive joint on their prop shafts, in case you don't agree shafts have to have TWO Cardan joints to work correctly. Who am I to say this , well I am a qualified  automotive technician for over 50 years & have done anything from changing a light bulb to complete restorations costing $150,000.00 & up, mostly British Sports cars. I also finished my #197 & last MG engine last week. I took up model boats as a hobby about 5 years ago. I live in the middle of (Canada) nowhere as far as model boat clubs are concerned. All my help came from U/K, some bad but mostly good, Dave M. was the most helpful of all, answered all stupid questions with a note of sarcasm & also did ALL my wiring diagrams free. Well folks I don't build my kit boats for your satisfaction, I could not care less as long as they satisfy ME. If I had the time I probably could scratch build as well as a lot of other folk but I am 1000KM from the nearest ocean & I don't Easley have access to the recourses that that European model makers do.   By all means help us to do it better but stop the criticism of people that don't do it your way, you will only succeed in driving people from the hobby. When I decided to start model boats as a hobby I laid out the necessary money for the tools I thought I needed to do things well, including a mill & lathe, however health got in the way & stopped me dead in my tracks for a time, I am much better now though. There are some great people on this forum, lets keep it that way & thank those that give of their time & Knowledge freely, sometimes with little respect. Remember you will always catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. Mick B. in far away Canada.          {:-{ :D O0 >>:-(
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Norseman

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2016, 01:59:21 AM »

 In defence of most rivet counters they just know elusive stuff and usually respond quite generously to our odd questions. How many people could say if the smallest circumference on the attack periscope of U570 was 3 and 29/32" at 5 and 1/4" from the top? Or say well when I sailed on those tugs they had this equipment ..... etc. I expect they are both scratch and kit builders/modders too.

.... and then there are the wise beings who master steam. I do not understand their hissing whispers  {:-{
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Hande

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #87 on: February 13, 2016, 07:50:40 AM »

I'm telling you.

Putting this together - with no instructions from the kit vendor:

- is a satisfying achievement
- required research
- required elbow grease
- required wit
- was very real - as real as scratch building - to me

Was certainly not just glueing some Airfix parts together (I started with Airfix long time ago - like so many others).

I just wanted to express a sentiment of pride, here.

Actually, I don't hear much disagreement on this thread - some unfortunately selected words, though.

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Brian60

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #88 on: February 13, 2016, 08:00:19 AM »

Hande don't be disconcerted by the original post. You built from a kit but go back and take a look at who has offered you support and suggestions on how to achieve things. I think you will find that it is me! Now count how many people including yourself have posted to your topic and compare it to how many people have just read your topic, You will find a huge discrepancy. If only those who read actually offered comment or help on a post how much better would things be?

Hande

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #89 on: February 13, 2016, 08:13:41 AM »


Go rivet counters, go! :-))
I have great respect for such commitment to a hobby.


I can relate, because I have tried to track the whereabouts of the original thing of my model.
From frozen Finland, it has to be done on the Net solely and I have not been able to count any rivets. But it is cool and it gives more depth to my model building hobby.





In defence of most rivet counters they just know elusive stuff and usually respond quite generously to our odd questions. How many people could say if the smallest circumference on the attack periscope of U570 was 3 and 29/32" at 5 and 1/4" from the top? Or say well when I sailed on those tugs they had this equipment ..... etc. I expect they are both scratch and kit builders/modders too.

.... and then there are the wise beings who master steam. I do not understand their hissing whispers  {:-{
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roycv

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #90 on: February 13, 2016, 08:18:11 AM »

Hi Hande, what is that picture?
Roy
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Hande

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2016, 08:33:22 AM »


Sorry to quote myself - but to underline:


"Glueing together" an Airfix Bismark was a great challenge - to me.
I was praised and I felt a sentiment of pride.
That just wouldn't make me tick today.







Was certainly not just glueing some Airfix parts together (I started with Airfix long time ago - like so many others).


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Hande

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2016, 08:59:24 AM »


Tug: based on Billing boats kit BB528 (Smit Nederland) - intending to convert (only minor modifications) to UREKA XIV, which is a later incarnation of Smit Nederlands sister ship, Smit Finland.


The photo is about the edge of the main deck. I am only going through an early phase of the learning curve.


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=53761.new#top

Hi Hande, what is that picture?
Roy
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roycv

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #93 on: February 13, 2016, 09:16:33 AM »

Hi all, I have been re-reading previous contributions to this thread  Bob K asked for a definition of scratch building.  Going back to the late 90's I had to sort out the rules for awarding trophies and certificates for our model engineering society.
I was presented with a problem that our exhibition manager had put some kit origin models into categories which said 'scratchbuilt'.

I did have scorn placed upon model boats built from kits by 5 inch gauge live steam locomotive builders who assured me that they were scratch builders.  I asked if they had made the boilers, No was the answer, so I said you are not really scratch builders then are you?

I put the problem to our judges (all well known at National level).
I said we have handed  down trophies and do not want to abandom them,  but we still have to reflect what the club members are building.  I had a very constructive response from Keith Bragg, I am sure he will not mind me mentioning his name.

He said in place of scratch built substitute the words 'assembled or constructed by the builder'.  This fits the bill very well. Scratch builders are catered for and recognized for their ability but many others are included.

However over the years as with the Model engineer exhibition, competition model entries are becoming fewer and sadly last year for our club exhibition I had to cancel the awards and trophy competition as there were so few entries it was embarrassing to ask judges to attend.
Did not make a blind bit of difference to the exhibition!

Visitors were amazed at the all the models on show (which was the main objective) and the big draw was to the road vehicles which are noisy, covered in flashing lights and exciting, all kit built, with the opportunity of driving one as well, and why not?

Some of the Meccano models we have on show can set you back the cost of a 2nd. hand car.
We must not lose sight of the pleasure of having a model of someting you like, if you have to buy it ready made and your enthusiasm is there then that is great.
Your peers will respect your abilities and the rest are not able to distinguish the differences anyway. 
My earliest model yacht was designed from a 6 x 4 photo in a yachting magazine, sails well and earned a bronze medal much to my surprise at the M.E. exhibition in London.
My preferences now are in restoring model boats, even kit boats!  Mainly for their owners.  The amazing thing to me is how little they value your time.

For a scratch built model boat if you use ready cut wood for say planking the hull does that rule you out? And what about mixing your own paint?
Life is too short!

regards to all scratch and kit builders and all owners who would not be parted from their models.

Roy


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Hande

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #94 on: February 13, 2016, 09:27:46 AM »

Hande don't be disconcerted by the original post. You built from a kit but go back and take a look at who has offered you support and suggestions on how to achieve things. I think you will find that it is me! Now count how many people including yourself have posted to your topic and compare it to how many people have just read your topic, You will find a huge discrepancy. If only those who read actually offered comment or help on a post how much better would things be?




>   P/M


In effetti, I have paid attention to the great number of views of my build. I'm amazed! I'm not so sorry about the small number of responses. I have visited so many blogs myself, and refrained from comments as a courtesy. It's good that people only respond, when they have some substantial contribution to make. Having said that - I cannot refrain from thanking, which strictly speaking is not constructive in terms of model building. It's not called social media for nothing  ok2



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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2016, 09:34:01 AM »

I'm telling you.

Putting this together - with no instructions from the kit vendor:

- is a satisfying achievement
- required research
- required elbow grease
- required wit
- was very real - as real as scratch building - to me

Was certainly not just glueing some Airfix parts together (I started with Airfix long time ago - like so many others).

I just wanted to express a sentiment of pride, here.

Actually, I don't hear much disagreement on this thread - some unfortunately selected words, though.


They say ,a picture speaks a thousand words, but only if the language is correct.
Here am I thinking it is a photo of wallpaper and what has it got to do with model boating.
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Bob K

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2016, 09:54:52 AM »

Very nicely put Roy.  We should not differentiate just the extremes of Airfix kit and plank on frame hull, as if there is nothing between to the point of showing contempt (original post). I have seen countless models in which high levels of personal skills and craft ingenuity abound that are not technically 100% hand crochured, yet have taken many months (or even years) to build.

Here is a relevant dilemma:  Do I carry on with my latest project using rib/frame/planked method, or wait a few months when I have been informed a fibreglass hull for the ship will become available.  I am quite capable of building a hull, but starting with an accurate glass one saves a lot of effort and allows me to scratch build everything else.  Does that make me less skilled and worthy of contempt if I choose a ready made hull?
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inertia

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2016, 10:10:22 AM »

Here is a relevant dilemma:  Do I carry on with my latest project using rib/frame/planked method, or wait a few months when I have been informed a fibreglass hull for the ship will become available. 
Bob
On a purely practical level (which I'm far better at than philosophy) it depends on how far you have got with the hull at the moment; whether or not you can continue in the meantime with other parts of the model without a finished hull; whether or not your information concerning the GRP hull is correct, and the likely quality and price of that hull as/when/if it comes to market. Only you can weigh up all those factors, but you notice I haven't included any nonsense about whether or not it can be considered as scratch-built.
If you don't care one way or t' other then b****r everyone else!
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roycv

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2016, 10:24:19 AM »

Hi Bob, carry on! Especially if you have already cut out the frames.
 I was demonstrating building electronic circuits at one of our exhibitions about 1980 I think, I know my eyesight was better then!
Next to me was a good friend who had researched and obtained plans from the National maritime museum of a Harbour defence launch, he was building a (diagonal) plank on frame model, now in my possession.

With us was David Abbot (building a destroyer) who said he thought the HDML looked familiar.

Next day David stood in front of us and with a Ta Daaa unrolled the coming free plan for December Model Boats magazine of the HDML.

Friend Graham had to be stopped from smashing the hull he was making, it says a lot about some scratch builders in this instance.  You have to accept that yours is not the only great mind at work, someone probably has built one of those before but at the end of the day you are building it for yourself, you will know what went into it.

My friend Graham died tragically at a very early age (44) and I bought the HDML from his estate, so I have a pre- Model Boats free plan model of the HDML. (eat dirt you plastic hull HDML modellers!).  I had the satisfaction of getting the mechanicals  to work properly though.
As I said before fellow modellers will know, to the rest it is irrelevant.

regards Roy


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Bob K

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Re: Has the art of model building died?
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2016, 11:15:34 AM »

Thank you Dave and Roy.   I was just tying to make a point regarding the discussion.  No, I have not started the woodwork yet, but have established a workable methodology for the unusual shape and have section profiles scaled up.  The plug for the fibreglass version is a probable for September.  The choice is do I wait until September, without seeing it, or lay the keel maybe next month.  The time factor may well be the deciding issue, not influenced whether others may decry my skills as "fit for Airfix only" if I chose fibreglass. 
Sorry, but post #1 really wound me up  >>:-(
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