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Author Topic: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build  (Read 272873 times)

Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2016, 09:21:37 am »

Don't worry about it Kim It is quite clear on the plan.

Do have an answer yet for why the boat you are building is so different from the others?
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spongie

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #126 on: September 04, 2016, 02:50:05 pm »

13-01 & 13-02 are both "prototypes" to a certain extent. Even 13-05 is a bit different.

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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #127 on: September 05, 2016, 12:32:16 pm »

Hi Adrian,
I have been assured by folk at the Technical Dept., at RNLI Poole, and by two Engineers / Mechanics likewise, that there are no differences - they are all from the same moulds. But then Mk1 [John] brought to my attention that there are in the fixtures and fittings - with photos to prove. I think that in their [RNLI] 'eyes' this is the case - but some of us as modellers, keen for accurate detail, spot items to disprove this. I know quite a lot of modellers that have now bought this model and are following my build and I am just pointing out that the research and plans used need to be from a known source and the 'provenance' and 'scaling up' size known. I know one person who scaled up to make it 13 metres [whereas it is 13.6 metres], someone else to 13.5 metres and another to 13.64 metres. I have bought and 'inherited' three sets of plans and as I have pointed out earlier that on one set the nose of the wheelhouse is 150mm, another 147mm and another 145mm [the set that I am now using as the hull, deck and wheelhouse seem to correspond, give or take the odd 1mm]. For me it's the final symbiosis where windows line up with stanchions, that line up with intake / air conditioning valves and outlets, with 'eye-lines' drawn to aerials etc.,. It is at this point that I am 'adding my touches' to go along with those plans finally 'ticked' and being used. Some of my friends and acquaintances that have bought this model at recent shows and Club meetings have said they are not worried about this sort of detail and are just building 'as found' - some not even from plans - each to their own approach. As you well know, that if you are having plans enlarged to the size to work from [1/12th] are they to one, two or three decimal places and how accurate are the ones purchased from the RNLI, where quite often they bear the phrase 'do not use to scale'. Enough from me - you've all got better things to do - but I just want to make some aware that detail can differ. Hence my regular visits to Dungeness to measure the actual vessel, like others, I am fortunate in this respect.
Kim
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spongie

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2016, 12:59:52 pm »

the phrase "do not use to scale" is quite common on technical drawings, mainly down to user error.

do you measure from the outside of the line, the middle of the line or the inside of the line, is the print actually printed accurately due to printer resolution or malfunctions. Once that drawing is on paper the draughtsman (people like me) have absolutely no control over how it is used, all we can do is state on the drawing that our dimensions (where any are stated) are final, and "do not use to scale".

In my experience of RNLI plans, sometimes there are differences between the plan and the real thing and the institution really don't know any different at all. an example of this is our boat, 50-001's "as modified" plans show her having two rope boxes on the fore deck and the fuel fillers on the side decks along the aft cabin sides. 50-001 has always only had one rope box, with a salvage pump the other side, and she was built with her fuel fillers on the side decks, but when she was modified they moved to the forward end of the aft cabin. so the "as modified" plans do not actually show her correctly at all.

50-002 on the other hand, did have two rope boxes and the fuel fillers did remain on the side decks.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2016, 01:46:51 pm »

Spongie, you are right. I was just hoping to make this clear to some folk, hoping to build and accurate model of any lifeboat. My official RNLI Trent plans show the telecomms  tower the same way round on both the bow and stern view plans! This then needs a little 'research' to see which is correct and then reverse the other. Someone obviously 'copied' and 'pasted' without reversing the image. I have run a 5 year course on model boat building from my home and workshop, for the U3A, and all the people attending were very clever and practical people, but had never made a model boat. Some have now got five or six!! Five members now belong to the MBA-Dover club. However, as we started from absolute basics and progressed, they could not believe all the little 'traps' that were inherent in the process of building an accurate model. Some even went to the National Maritime Museum and up to Glasgow and Newcastle to get their plans from the actual boatyards or builders.
Here I was just trying to cover 'the approach' and a few pitfalls to the way forward regarding this lovely shaped lifeboat. Thanks for your input and professional insight though. Please feel free to join in at anytime - I've read your comments elsewhere too. This was the benefit from my Course - everyone's inputs helped - just like this great Forum!
Kim
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spongie

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2016, 01:59:54 pm »

I can draw the drawings and read them, I'm refurbishing a full sized Lifeboat and half attempting to build one at 1/12 but I have very little skill, patience or the equipment to do so to such a high standard as yourself
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #131 on: September 05, 2016, 02:21:06 pm »

Spongie, I admire what you are doing - if I had that sort of skill I would not be building models!! That said, I am only 'mediocre' compared to a lot of my friends and acquaintances in the model boat building world. However, your kind comments are an encouragement. I am of the opinion that if you buy your model from eBay it's your model [your money purchased it!]; if you build a full kit, it's your model [skill required in completing it, gluing and soldering, painting and all those electrics!]; semi-kit or hull purchase and then semi-scratch as much as possible [my way normally]; buy or inherit and refurbish or upgrade; or just literally see something on holiday and out of your memory of what you saw and understood, build from whatever you have in the workshop / shed or garage - no plans, no photographs. I'll quote the great man himself again [Phil Warren] - 'it's only a hobby if you build to your standard and at your speed, anything else is a chore'. So right.
Keep up the good work, Kim
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #132 on: September 05, 2016, 09:34:10 pm »

The RNLI,s plans are spot on. Any others are wrong if not drawn from them.
I know a lot about the Shannon. I have done over 500 parts on 3D CAD and know the boat rather intimately now.

You are trying to build a scale model on a base that isn,t really meant to be scrutinised to the level you have  gone to. You did the same thing with my Trent years ago and I admit it hurt a bit. I did my best to make an attractive model but it did not stand up to the level of scrutiny you gave it. It is the very reason why I am revamping my Trent now so I did kisten,.

If I were building someone's offering, that's what I would do, warts an all. I thinks its only fair really.
Whilst what you have done may well be interesting to many, daring to chop and fill and make changes and explaining how you did it, I do actually feel the hurt for Andy.

Why not start a scratch model and show how to do it rather than how to 'correct' others best efforts to bring them up to your standard?
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #133 on: September 06, 2016, 02:18:05 am »

I've been in touch with the RNLI Sales Department at Poole HQ yesterday [Monday - I have the gentleman's name I spoke to] as I had received feedback that 'the RNLI were not going to be producing the Shannon plans anymore and had returned peoples monies'. He said that that was not the case, it is just that there has been a big run on them and they had sold out - they will be back in stock on September 12th [hopefully].
Whilst writing I have also got confirmation from Martin at Macs Mouldings that he will be at the Headcorn Aerodrome Southern Model Show this coming weekend [Saturday and Sunday], as well as Models by Design and Component Shop as previously reported - that's great news.
The Team from the Kent Model Boat Display Team were there last weekend and they set up the pond - 32 metres by 12 metres - it is now filling!! Phil Knell said there were fourteen Clubs supporting the marine side of the event, as well as the Portsmouth Model Boat Display Team who will have a static display there on the Sunday. I am looking forward to seeing my 1/16th scale FCB2 - the Shannon prototype - which is now owned by Adam Maplesden. He is continuing the build and has it back on the water and running.
During the time we were setting up the Spitfire below made three take offs and landings - wonderful sight and sound!
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2016, 11:51:36 am »

That sounds like a super weekend! Wish I could be there. Next year I am going to do many more shows, not so much as a trader but for fun. Kim, could you direct me in the right direction to joint the Lifeboat Model enthusiast please?
Tanks
Adrian
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2016, 03:49:50 pm »

As you can see from my last Post it was nearly half past two this morning when I wrote it and I attached two photographs; after some ten minutes of it saying it was loading it cut me off, sent me a strange message saying it had not been sent and to try again later! I went to bed. Today I've been out, so came back to catch up and lo and behold it had posted the text!?*
So here are the two photos to go with it. The wonders of IT.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2016, 05:38:13 pm »

To those of you following this thread I just want to make one thing clear, when I got my Shannon from Andy at MBD I did say I would probably do a 'build thread' on MBM and it would it be OK to show any modifications I might want to make to it as the Dungeness lifeboat - as I see it when I visit. He said he has known me long enough and would not have expected anything different from me - 'you have my OK to make it an open and honest build' - I was grateful and that shows the integrity of the manufacturer. Everything I have come up with I have run past him first, before 'posting'.
I have just 'phoned him to see if he is still OK with this, even though we speak and email each other umpteen times a week - no problem. In fact he said that since Haydock folk have been ringing and ordering them, mentioning that they are following this 'thread' and that the build will be of some help, others that it is a useful read, but they will be doing their own thing. I know this, as I have had a resurgence of orders for the DVD of Shannon photos [Andy has passed them on to me] and some come with a note stating this. Likewise, I have had emails and PMs to the same effect, encouraging me on. Andy knows of two more small amendments I will make at later stage, maybe this week or next week, and is OK with these too.
He has given me permission to show his latest Project which is a 1:1 scale catamaran fishing boat he has designed and fully made the plug and mould for - the 7 metre 'Cougar'. This is now being commercially produced here in Kent. He asked me to go out on her from Ramsgate for a sea trial a few weeks back and said if he was upset with me over the Shannon build he had ample opportunity to throw me overboard - thankfully he didn't. She really went well and was a very steady and stable ride. His own one is down on the South Coast, not on brushless motors, but two Mercury 80s instead!
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2016, 05:49:39 pm »

One or two have asked after last Sunday's Festival at Broomfield Park where Derek Attree and Paul Chilcott organised a marine display at the pondside. It was a great idea and we got a lot of attention and questions, especially his 'Kittyhawk' aircraft carrier. Some thirty odd younsters had a go of my Divers' boat. The postcard of 13-02 sold eleven copies and in all my RNLI collecting box had 43.70 in it. The Shannon photographic display got a little attention off and on throughout the day.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2016, 06:04:28 pm »

Adrian [and any others wishing to join the Lifeboat Enthusiasts' Society], just send an email to John Francis the Honorary Secretary at john_francis@rnli.org.uk and he will send a membership form to you. For 18 a year you get three superb [and I mean that!] magazines [called The Newsletter] a year that are top quality in content and information. There is a modelling section in the magazine too. This will also entitle you to attend at least two meetings, normally at Chatham Dockyard in October and the LBES Midlands Meeting at Knightcote in May, where model lifeboats abound. The photo is from Knightcote this year, an end of day photocall.
Canterbury Coxswain
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #139 on: September 06, 2016, 06:48:59 pm »

Thanks for the info re the enthusiasts society. I'll get in touch with him.
Glad too to hear about Andy's phylosophic attitude.
That's some pond.
Have a good weekend.
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captain bligh

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2016, 08:26:13 pm »

Cracking photo   :-)) :-))
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Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #141 on: September 06, 2016, 08:27:21 pm »

Hi Kim
Thanks for the support at Broomfield and great about the money you raised for the RNLI.
I would add that Mountfleet are coming to Headcorn too.

See you there

Derek
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #142 on: September 10, 2016, 10:54:14 pm »

Wow!! What a great day. We just about got away with the weather, not quite as bad as predicted. Tomorrow [Sunday] looks really good weather. This has to be the best 'Headcorn' yet and Phil Knell and his Team have done a really good job and there really is a Marine Village feel, while the acrobatic displays of the model aircraft 'brother and sisterhood' just have to be seen to be believed!
Well, I really want to get my jet drives in now, having seen Andy's [MbD] perform today. Those Kehrer Jet 28s really seem to do the job, as the photos here are how it went, but when we got it out of the water the jets were clogged with straw off-cuts from the hay bales!! So I left Andy cleaning them out. I'll report back on them now, tomorrow. That said, there was plenty of speed and she turns on a sixpence - but the most impressive was when he put her into reverse by dropping the reversing buckets - she pulled up in her own length! More technical data will follow, but I am impressed. Later in the day Andy and Martin [Macs Mouldings] did a power test alongside the pool to see the power of the thrust from the water-jets and even Martin had a problem [with his solid frame] holding her steady!!
It was also good to see my little 1/16th scale FCB2, which I sold to young Adam Maplesden, being back on the water and further build work done to her by him. Great to see some younger modellers having a go at the build process. You can see him on the water, while Andy prepares the Shannon.
Finally, I went to Dungeness RNLI on Friday to take some more measurements that the RNLI plans do not reveal and some other confirmation ones. I also took quite a number of shots of the small LED lighting units around the boat that illuminate the deck [three different types in all - not counting the multi unit on the rear of the telecomms mast]. During this work, ably helped by my good friend Dick, I saw a young couple taking an interest and some photos of 13-02 and seeing as the Coxswain had gone off for lunch, asked if they had been aboard one and was there anything I could do to help or explain. The answer came back that they were OK, and on holiday from Somerset and that he had ordered a Speedline Models Shannon. They had also been to Dover to see the Severn 17-09. He then said 'Are you Kim?'. 'Yes' I said bemused, it turned out it was Pipster [Phil] - what a small world. Nice to have met you both!
More next week.
Kim - Canterbury Coxswain
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pipster

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #143 on: September 11, 2016, 01:47:17 pm »

Hi Kim
Good to meet you and thanks for calling us young! I'm enjoying following your build; all looking good.
Phil
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captain bligh

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #144 on: September 11, 2016, 04:25:34 pm »

Hi all
Think the model looks better than the real thing  %%. But I am  biased towards the Severn class  :-)) :-))
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #145 on: September 11, 2016, 10:49:49 pm »

Over on the 'other' Shannon thread I have posted a link with loads of detail photos which everyone building a Shannon is very welcome to use. I hope you find them useful.
Adrian
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #146 on: September 11, 2016, 11:04:14 pm »

As promised yesterday, a few more photos taken at 0800hrs this morning. Andy had cleaned the 'floating straw' pieces from the hay bales out from the water jets [which await grills to help protect the water input]. He is running the motors [around 850kv - 850rpm per volt] on 14.8volt LiPos, so about 12,500 rpm]. She did seem to be going  faster - the photos speak for themselves - if I get performance from my set-up I will be well pleased. I've also included three shots of her braking, once the reversing buckets were put down - this was within her own length, impressive, just like the real boat. Likewise a couple of Andy spinning it on the spot. He also, using all four servos, the two buckets and forward / reverse was able to 'crab' it sideways, again just like the real vessel.
Throughout the day there was much interest when it went onto the water and also at Andy's stand - continuously. There was a vast crowd, and the organising group's leader [Phil Knell] told me he had counted 192 around the pool with 22 boats on the water. It really was the best Headcorn / Hop Farm Southern Model Show in my opinion. The Kent Model Boat Display Team should be congratulated for all their efforts. Some fourteen MBCs supported them in this venture. A report of the event in will follow in MMI in a couple of months under 'Meeting Point'.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #147 on: September 11, 2016, 11:14:16 pm »

Just dug out four shots I took last August down at the RNLI HQ Open Weekend - look at the crew member hanging onto the stern rail under such braking!! Looks familiar?
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #148 on: September 12, 2016, 10:35:44 am »

Hi Adrian, Thanks for the Post and I'm sure folk are grateful and will use them - we all need them to support our builds. However, as you know, I do a DVD of static photos of detail and have been doing rather well on raising funds for the RNLI, who very graciously let us 'crawl all over their boats and get in the way'! I just hope that now you have Posted that offer on this 'thread' that those requests [and thereby funds for the RNLI] do not 'dry up'. Since the Shannon model builds have been going Dungeness RNLI have now had more than 600 from this revenue source, and over the past few years with Trent, Solent, Severn, Tamar, Mersey and Arun ones I have been able to send them another 700 or so. But maybe I'm jumping the gun and you are doing likewise - if so, great and the RNLI are really going to benefit from all our efforts.
Thanks, Kim [Canterbury Coxswain].
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2016, 10:39:52 am »

Sorry left a few words out in earlier Post - hope this makes more sense now!
As promised yesterday, a few more photos taken at 0800hrs this morning. Andy had cleaned the 'floating straw' pieces from the hay bales out from the water jets [which await grills to help protect the water input]. He is running the motors [around 850kv - 850rpm per volt] on 14.8volt LiPos, so about 12,500 rpm]. She did seem to be going  faster - the photos speak for themselves - if I get this performance from my set-up I will be well pleased. I've also included three shots of her braking, once the reversing buckets were put down - this was within her own length, impressive, just like the real boat. Likewise a couple of Andy spinning it on the spot. He also, using all four servos, the two buckets and forward / reverse was able to 'crab' it sideways, again just like the real vessel.
Throughout the day there was much interest when it went onto the water and also at Andy's stand - continuously. There was a vast crowd, and the organising group's leader [Phil Knell] told me he had counted 192 around the pool with 22 boats on the water at one particular time. It really was the best Headcorn / Hop Farm Southern Model Show in my opinion. The Kent Model Boat Display Team should be congratulated for all their efforts. Some fourteen MBCs supported them in this venture. A report of the event in will follow in MMI in a couple of months under 'Meeting Point'.
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