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Author Topic: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build  (Read 270476 times)

Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #475 on: October 04, 2017, 11:59:38 PM »

I have to acknowledge, here, my thanks to Trevor Bunney, the full time engineer on 13-02. He gives me lots of information and answers all my questions regarding this fabulous lifeboat - it does make my job easier when I travel up and down the country giving my illustrated talk to all sorts of groups on the 'Launch and Recovery of the Dungeness Shannon Class Lifeboat'.
So, spurred on by Charlie's observation and photo of the Swanage boat's searchlight, I went down a fortnight ago and asked Trevor to get the searchlight out.' Which one', he said, 'there are two'. It turns out one is stored in the Fore-peak Survivors' cabin and this is used on the two location points on the top rail of the Pulpit Rail - Port and Starboard. The other is stored on the Starboard side locker of the upper steering position and this is either located on the Starboard side point as depicted in Charlie's photo or on the stern deck railing on the Port side as in my photos here. These are the four positions.
As Trevor had been fitting new impellers to the two water-jets the previous week he showed me one of the stainless bands placed inside the tunnel around the impeller, which then has a plastic sleeve between that and the actual water-jet tunnel itself. This bares the brunt of the stones and shingle thrown at the tunnel sides during operation. Impressive.
During my attendance he was working in the engine room, so the H&S grille was fitted to stop me falling in! There are two of these - one is kept in the engine room and used at sea, should the stern engine room access hatch be used and the other is kept on the wall of the Crew access gallery wall.
Finally, I wanted to check what type of life-raft containers were used and whether the bow [wheelhouse Port side 'nose' one was the same as that under the step up into the upper steering position - it was. I now have the full measurements of this and the runners underneath the container of the latter. Trevor was slightly reluctant to get this out as it is heavy and also marks the deck [that anti-slip paint is vicious!!], but he did it and would not let me clean the deck up afterwards - a real gent.
Finally, it was Mk1 [John] who said that the areas under the steps at the stern were indented to the Port side and flush on the Port side - totally right, now that I have got down on my knees and looked - thanks, another small piece of detail that will be rectified on my model.
If any of you dozens of modellers that have purchased my DVD of photos would like the last few Folders [visits for the corridor, extra upper steering position instrument and searchlight details + life-raft container] of these photos, then send me a PM and a reminder of your address and I send another DVD with them on [there are more than just shown here] - just let me know the last Folder number on your current DVD.
Well, hope this is informative and helps with your own model builds.
Kim
C.C.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #476 on: October 05, 2017, 12:13:12 AM »

Just to say, the last photo shows the forward life-raft container where it sits on similar runners. The stern runners are each lifted off the deck by three small blocks down each side [the screw heads are just visible]. If anyone wants the measurements here, just send me a PM or an email. Cheers.
C.C.
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Starspider

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #477 on: October 05, 2017, 08:15:31 AM »




Kim the level of detail and information being given on this thread to help others is outstanding, without mentioning the DVDs you produce. I would just like to say THANKS very much for your time and effort.  :-))


 Peace Colin
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #478 on: October 05, 2017, 03:16:14 PM »

Colin, thanks for your kind words and encouragement, they are much appreciated. Of course there are other good 'teachers' on this Lifeboat heading that do a great job too - Neil, Charlie, Tiny69, Griebeauval and Son [Mike and David] and as for Shannons the great two scratch builds of Mk1 [John]. Each of these gents has explained and photographed their marine creations, the research involved, mistakes made and tools used along the way, as well as planning and procedural approach. This shared knowledge not only helps those wanting to build their own boats, but also gets the 'readership' questioning our techniques used and even coming up with other ways [sometimes better and not even thought of!!] to approach a certain part of the build - great! I know just how many of these Shannons have been sold and how many of these are embarking on their first model boat project - through 'phone calls, emails and PMs received. As it is a semi-scratch build, information passed on hopefully makes the venture slightly more enjoyable and possibly not so expensive on mistakes made through 'lessons learnt'. The more that join in keep our great hobby alive and enduring, long past my time on this 'mortal coil'!!
So to the continuing build and my thoughts on my approach to the water-jets. You will see from the photographs that there is;
  • the original KMB [Kehrer Modellbau] Jet28s with the 'short nozzle' and without reverse. The idea being I knew of these, they were the nearest to scale for this lifeboat that could be bought commercially at a sensible price and had a proven pedigree. They were [and do have already via Andy at MbD.....] to have a glass fibre reversing bucket attached. They have more than enough power to push this model at more than scale speed from 12 volts and on brushless motors with around a 900kv rating.
  • Then I bought the KMB Riva-Calzoni conversion [a bolt on end unit to replace what can be seen on the outside of the stern transom area]. My reason for this was that when [!!] I get the electrics in and working, this would be the quickest way to give both forward and reverse directions, if not exactly 'scale-like'. These units have a sort of bottom 'trap hatch' that drops a plate to direct the water jet itself forward by at the same time raising a tunnell shaped plate inside to stop the water exiting the nozzle rearwards. I also did not glue the bottom plate on, when assembling the unit, but used two stainless steel countersunk screws [M2 x 6mm] to fix them, using a hand pin vice 1mm drill and then allowing the screw to self-tap its own thread. However, I noticed when they arrived that these units had a flange [made by the looks on a 3D printer] that sleeved over the fixed unit exiting the transom location and designed to have a snugger fit to the directional nozzle, thus stopping a lot of water, under extreme pressure, being forced out of the back of the unit and hitting the transom area. This now made me think.....................
  • ...........if I buy just the exposed tunnel units [x2] for the Riva-Calzoni, then cut them back to a scale Shannon length, maybe I could then mount the MbD reversing buckets on this, making it an almost scale replica of the actual Hamilton water-jets! That I will proceed with later this week and report back on. But another 'however'!! What if I bought two [actually bought four - just in case I broke one or two] of these flanges from KMB - which state they will not fit or work on the 'short nozzle' version of their Jet28s - and machine them to fit my original Jet28s as at 1] above? You will see that this has been achieved and works from the photos accompanying this part of the 'Thread'. I used the 'outside' edge of the headstock lathe jaws - as you can see I have never been an engineer - but it worked.
Thomas, the owner / manufacturer of these KMB water-jets, must wonder where the 'explosion' of mainly UK requests for his units have come from, although I did warn him this might happen when I enquired of him the availability of these units some eighteen months ago!! Maybe I'll get a German Christmas card!!
Strange though, a couple of days ago a package of two water-jets [as at 1] above] came to me on behalf of an RNLI employee at Dungeness who is also building one of MbDs model. When I checked the contents I could not but chuckle - they are now fitted with a flange, just like the ones I had machined down!! Life is strange at times.
Well, I hope you have followed my 'ramblings' here. Just ask if not, but it reminds me of my good friend 17-21 [Phil Locke] who years ago developed various 'drive trains' [along with Ian from Derby] of the Speedline 1/12th Severn class and then the Tamar with his radio controlled working transom door for the 'Y' boat - the develoement often comes from one [sometimes two] source, where the ideas require an injection of cash to develope - only for everyone else to use after they have been proven!! This above has been reasonably cheap - in the grand scheme of things, I'll just charge it to 'house-keeping' - but if others can benefit, then we have taken the hobby forward. Back to where Colin brought us in with his kind comments.
Cheers,
Kim - C.C.
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mk1

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #479 on: October 06, 2017, 07:31:22 AM »

Hi Kim just looking at your bit on the KMB jets. When I bought mine with the short nozzle the Black ring that you show was in with the jets kits [both sets of jets] and they fit the short nozzle okay. The problem I found is by using the short nozzle you have to have room for it to turn in the Hood and this is were the water escapes out the back under pressure. I have tried many way to stop this but have not found a perfect answer yet. The best I have cone up with is to extend the short nozzle as much as you can so it just clears the hood when you rise and lower and turn it. My boat goes quite well in reverse [I think] not tried it out against any other persons ones and due to health problems am unlikely to have it in the water again.

John
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #480 on: October 06, 2017, 12:04:37 PM »

Leading up to the St. Albans MES Show I thought I would make the 'whip aerials' [VHF] on either side of the wheelhouse, to give the model a little more height and presence whilst on display.
So, using 1/2" [12.7mm] aluminium rod stock I machined them both down, having drilled a 2mm hole in the centre first. The flange was 10mm diameter and the pivot protrusion 3mm. These were 'fixed' temporarily to the sides of the wheelhouse, having first marked their positions on masking tape and then re-checking before drilling! This worked and then my fear came true when attempting to make the bottom ends of the main sections of aerial in carbon rod - it split and did not like the drill at all. So after a number of attempts and lack of time what you see is what I got. I will attempt to make them now in brass and aluminium [like those on my Trent and Arun class lifeboat models] and spray them later. Hopefully this will get done next week, in time for the 'Warwick' Show.
A small progress, but not so much to read this time.
C.C.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #481 on: October 06, 2017, 02:04:33 PM »

Just one point of observation, whilst photographing the Shannon a fortnight ago. I had seen the previous photos of my wheelhouse roof bracket for the whip aerial seemed to show that it 'leaned' forward, however, one has to be wary of distortion - especially when the wide-angle setting has been used. But no, when I looked at the actual item it was constructed to lean forward. This, I think, is due to the fact that the aerial is inclined forward and, therefore, the 'tongue' that locates into the sprung aperture needs to enter at a small angle to locate smoothly. I measured the angle of inline and it was 12mm if a straight line was put to the perpendicular. So at this scale [1/12th] - a 1mm incline. Another small detail sorted. I have added the photos to show what I mean.
C.C.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #482 on: October 06, 2017, 02:22:19 PM »

My final Post for the day - some bits that arrived from Hiroboy, a company I have used before, but from their Japan supply warehouse. They seem to now have a base in Tewkesbury, UK. I had gone to the site after Arno [SwiftDoc] had been in discussion with me over model racing car matters. And this is where I originally found them, as that is another 'arm' of my modelling interests. Through this, when trawling their website, there are many, many items that can be used on the 1/12th [and 1/6th] scale lifeboats we build. So I stock up my workshop boxes, ready for use in some distant year!! Here are some of them - weld lines, hex nuts, concentric circles for instrument panels, screw heads and the one that looks like a length of wire is - 100x 2mmx 1mm neodymium magnets, superb for holding on small panels and fixings that might need removing to show hidden detail [mostly on my racing car engine covers]. The 2mm and 2.6mm braided wire from Tamiya I would rate at 90 out of 100, those I have sourced from Tuner Manufactory, in the past, I would rate at 100/100 - superb.
I think the photos allow you to see the items, their product numbers and the main manufacturer, although all of these were sourced from Hiroboy. As they say on the other side of the 'pond' - enjoy!!
C.C.
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Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #483 on: October 06, 2017, 02:27:48 PM »

Hi Kim
Interesting as normal keep it up with the posting.

Regards

Del
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #484 on: October 09, 2017, 03:43:06 PM »

Having an 'itsy-bitsy' day today - clearing some emails, tidying my photo Folders on the external hard drives and tidying up my workshop. In doing this I came across the attached photos of when I went tothe MME foundry at Faversham Creek to pick up some sacrificial anodes for a good friend of mine, Andy Ianetta, who at the time owned the ex-RNLI Arun Class lifeboat 'RNLB Mabel Alice' 52-24 from Penlee. He ordered them one day and I went to pick them up the next day and delivered them to him at Ramsgate Harbour that afternoon, before he, John and Rob took 52-24 up the East Coast. They were half the price of those purchased from the normal chandlery. Spot the guy that had cast them - sent out on a bit of a 'wind up' by his mates! The two long ones went on the keel plates and the two circular ones on the trim planes [tabs] on either stern transom corner.
Just thought it was of interest, as we were speaking of the Shannon's many sacrificial anodes around the water jets a few Posts back[Replies#471-473  ], so know the not insignificant cost back then.
Talking of water-jets, I finished off the small hex bolts around the stern Port side water-jet's plate the other day and then added both of the new Riva-Calzoni I had purchased from KMB. I think they look more the part, akin to the actual ones on the real boat. I am now playing around with a couple more of them to make some semi-scale reversing buckets, whilst closing off and fixing the bottom reversing system they use. I will also remove the little rudders on them. Only time will tell if it works and what they look like.
C.C.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #485 on: October 14, 2017, 11:46:03 AM »

Yesterday a little package arrived with the new tap and die set in it. Found it on Amazon - do search around though, as the same set came up with a price difference of 15!! I got this for 25 [GB Sterling] and from within the UK [Brexit speak]. Yes, it is from China, cheap, but not too nasty and fine for my limited and miniature purposes.
The set comprises dies of 1mm, 1.1mm, 1.2mm, 1.4mm, 1.6mm, 1.8mm, 2mm, 2.2mm and 2.5mm and a die holder. Then the equivalent taps [two of each] and two converter plates to use with the handle provided for the taps. You will see that I have one of the taps mounted in a Moore and Wright miniature tap holder [if it could talk it might well say 'what is this rubbish you've inserted!']. The set is purported to be of HSS. So far great value for my needs at this size. Next week I will get round to using it 'in anger'.
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #486 on: October 14, 2017, 01:37:33 PM »

Hi Kim, Ive had one of those threading sets for a couple of years now.....to put you at ease...its not yet let me down and all sizes still work great, even  when putting a small thread in a resin casting. Its just the end torque that takes some ,er adjustment to reduce pulling the thread out.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #487 on: October 14, 2017, 05:32:17 PM »

Thanks Steve,
I've used these sizes before - and like you I've gone straight into resin and GRP and for some applications this is fine, others NOT. But I have acquired a number stainless bolts now at 1.4mm and 1.6mm from Germany and in looking for some taps found this set, at a not too silly price.
You commendation makes me a happy man as I build up my appetite for my Saturday night curry!!
Cheers and thanks for your interest and information.
Kim
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #488 on: October 21, 2017, 03:15:10 PM »

Whilst sitting here with an enforced 'rest' period I am watching a superb game of snooker [English Open live on Quest] between Kyren Wilson and the Swiss Alexander Ursenbacher, who I have never seen before - he'll be a World Champion one day - marvellous concentration. All of this while I wait for the US Grand Prix [F1] Practice 3 Session and the Qualifying live on Channel 4!
So what have I been up to. Well, as a preface, thanks to all those that have sent encouraging emails and PMs regarding the detail and help this 'thread' is giving to a good number of Shannon builders. Also, thanks for the very generous spirit when paying for the Shannon DVDs you have ordered - I took another 110 down to RNLS Dungeness on Wednesday, all from the last two months. I also took one of the senior staff his KMB water-jets and flanges for brushless motors, these I had ordered for him and his MbD Shannon build - he only lives some 200yards from the actual lifeboat!! Having driven the 37 miles there, I decided to take more photos [never too many] and some more of my own measurements and notes to compliment the RNLI plans. I now have seventeen pages of these. You think you know the vessel, but the more you look the more 'little' details you find to be different and will need to get correct.
This is what I found out this visit:
  • The two main whip aerials [VHF and MF] are of different lengths by just over 500mmm........
  • They have different fixtures and fittings - including the main base ferrels, the joint ferrels and the tip endings.
  • On the wheelhouse 'nose' and either side of the upper steering position access are orange boxes that are the speakers [knew this]....
  • .....but the other grey units with a yellow press button are........the Intercom units.
  • I also wanted to have a look at the 'bend' or deviation of the two wheelhouse hand rails, especially the roof ones. These are 60mm from the roof surface to the underside of the rail.
  • Then, on walking around, I noticed that the deck stanchion / railing fixing 'spades' were of two different sizes! Those supporting the stern railings are 110mm x 100mm [six in all - three on each side], whilst those down the sides are 113mm x 112mm [twenty in all - ten on each side].
There were other small details too, but more photos of the above and these other parts, alongside a more comprehensive set of close-ups of the Survivor Gantry workings [hinges, support stay, lock mechanism and light] are now on a new Folder - number 19.
So, a little nearer the motor racing slot and another 'thread' up to date. I hope to make a start on the aerial mountings tomorrow.
C.C.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #489 on: October 21, 2017, 03:20:46 PM »

Final few photos [only ten allowed per Post].
C.C.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #490 on: October 27, 2017, 11:30:18 PM »

Spoke to Andy [MbD] earlier in the week and he sent me the attached photo of another of his Shannons [for shop display purpose only] sat on top of an 'on loan' Supercat tractor and carriage [SLAR] from the dynamic Pendlebury duo - Mike and David - at the Blackpool Show last weekend. Andy loaned them a Shannon! Fair exchange.......................
I've included two photos from my Knightcote LBES May 2017 Meeting report for Marine Modelling International, but they never made it due to them going into Administration!! Here they are - the 'dynamic duo'.
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #491 on: October 28, 2017, 03:51:51 PM »

The Slars units do look good with a Shannon on the back.  {-)

David stopped everybody in their tracks when he went 'walkabout' with his unit and the on loan shannon hull/superstructure from Andy.
All we need now is a pool with a ramp to launch and recover the boat.  :-))


Mike
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #492 on: October 28, 2017, 03:59:55 PM »

Hi Mike - totally agree and thanks for the inspiration. Will you and your units be at the 'Warwick' Show in a fortnight? If not [yet] give John Owen a PM / email and see if you can get on the LBES stand with the rest of us. You would be most welcome, but we might need another two tables!!
Kim
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #493 on: October 29, 2017, 01:22:48 AM »

The Slars units do look good with a Shannon on the back.  {-)

David stopped everybody in their tracks when he went 'walkabout' with his unit and the on loan shannon hull/superstructure from Andy.
All we need now is a pool with a ramp to launch and recover the boat.  :-))


Mike




Can be arranged for Blackpool next year


Dave
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #494 on: October 29, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »

Now, today has been a relaxing day - resting that wretched leg so that I can hopefully reach 'Warwick' in a reasonable state, not for the model boats, but for all the cake that is going to be available during the day and the curries in Leamington at night!!!!
So while I am waiting for the Mexican GP to come on I have been searching the Internet for more 'goodies' to put into the stores boxes in the workshop and came back with a company I have used on numerous occasions and mentioned before - www.prime-miniatures.co.uk . And 'lo and behold' [getting ready for Christmas there! - now that Arno has given me a Techi Advent Calender] I came up with these wonderful little brass clevis pins, that on looking at are virtually the right size for the VHF and MF aerial base hinges. So I have ordered some and also a lot of other items - have to spend the Pension somehow! Thought I might pass this onto those of you that are building a 1/12th Shannon or similar, so that you can have a look. They should be here quickly as they come with free 1st Class p&p.
Back to spending that Pension..................................C.C. {-)
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #495 on: November 02, 2017, 11:09:35 AM »

The clevis pins and the other items arrived, including some lovely stainless steel stranded wire for the bow strops. I must say that Dominic at Prime-Miniatutres has a superb set-up and customer service. Ordered items [1st Class mail - post 'free'] late on Sunday evening and the items were with me, neatly and strongly packaged by 1100hrs on Tuesday.
I have put the clevis pins to work and the results, so far, are posted here. Off to a doctor's appointment in the City now, hope to get into the workshop on my return to get the angled wheelhouse roof bracket and its locking mechanism under-way and also the top section of the aerial. I am making these as near to the actual mechanism as possible so that I can 'store' the aerials when transporting in the car, like the real lifeboat.
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #496 on: November 10, 2017, 12:28:17 AM »

All booked in and ready for the IMBS at 'Warwick' over the next three days. Two good matters straight away:-
  • Seen on Andy's MbD stand - the Shannon back from a boat yard in Burgundy, France.
  • Then to get a lovely great chocolate gateaux in exchange for a Shannon DVD from Baloo and Mrs. Baloo [Sue] - wonderful. The LBES Members will all be in for a 'treat' tomorrow [or more accurately - later today!].
More to follow tomorrow, hopefully.
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #497 on: November 10, 2017, 07:06:02 AM »

The Shannon looks brilliant, thanks for sharing :-)) :-)) :-)) Showing a Shannon boat in the flesh I am quite sure Andy will sell some of his kits over the weekend ok2 Enjoy the show!!!!!
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #498 on: November 10, 2017, 10:19:55 PM »

Arno,
Thanks. Good to hear from you - pity you are not here, you would have had a great day with us today and yes, Andy has sold a few Shannons and also taken a number of orders. Quite a few folk have shown an interest in my 'grey' Shannon and asked a lot of good questions. Alan Poole [17-09] has come up with a idea of how I can taper the top sections of the aerials [something I would not have thought of!!], so when I get back I'll try it and when I have a result I will share it.
Also today I had a quick chat with Adrian [Gosling] who popped his head into the Show, but I got called away to do another commentary on the pool. However, it was good to see him up and about - I've not seen him for a while. That said, one gent on this MBM site [Minimariner] did show me some nice photos of his Speedline 1/16th Shannon just 'mocked' up [hull, deck wheelhouse, fendering and deck fixtures and fittings] as he waits for the rest to be delivered - got the impression it was too much of a temptation to just leave it in its box, so has judiciously placed parts together and he was pleased with what he saw as an end product so far. I think he said he had it on display at the Blackpool [or was it Haydock?] Show recently.
Well, maybe I'll take a few photos tomorrow and Post them here if I have time - but Martin [our illustrious MBM Leader and Creator] was here today taking photos and keeping us 'all awake' with his brightly coloured Hawaiian shirt - for which he is famed.
Regards to you and all the 'readership'.
Kim [C.C.]
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Big Ada

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #499 on: November 11, 2017, 06:37:18 PM »

Have you got a photo of the Gateaux please.
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