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Author Topic: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build  (Read 250495 times)

Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #700 on: November 01, 2018, 11:29:34 PM »

Went into the workshop yesterday and made the two stern deck plates that the 'gob-eye' towing fairlead is fixed to. All of this while I waited for the brass 3.5mm tube to arrive and enable the pulpit rail to be completed. These were fabricated from 0.8mm [1/32"] brass strip.
During this process I noted that detail was missing from the RNLI plans. Some folk say these are always 100% accurate, but I have referred to my RNLI Trent class plans before, where the telecommunication mast is the same way around whether it is viewed from the bow or the stern. Also the port and starboard air-condition trunking exits the wheelhouse is left off. Here I noted that two plans of the same areas where some 2mm out in places at 1/12th scale. Also the three stern deck access hatch covers have only got the hinge detail on the covers - this is not continued onto the actual deck surface, as shown on the attached photo.
The brass tube was delivered late afternoon, so I quickly cut the two 100mm lengths that would become the front 'legs' for the pulpit rails and profiled the top joint area with a 'cod mouth', ready to accept the curve of the top rail.
Although a Concert week for me here in Canterbury, I did manage a few hours in the workshop today and tried to silver solder the 'legs' to the pulpit rail. Oh, what a day!! I made four attempts that were inadequate and broke. Finally it worked. I have done this many times and had no problem. Everything was clean, prepared and using the same flux that I normally use. It just goes to show that not everything proceeds well all of the time. This now needs to be cleaned up before I continue - I hope to get a little more done tomorrow, by getting the support rails in place on this fixture.
C.C.
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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #701 on: November 02, 2018, 10:21:15 PM »

Hi Kim
I question why the need for silver soldering ?
All my brass is regular multi core solder and holds very well
It took a full speed crash to break my bow railings and had they been silver soldered I fear the deck would have broken instead
https://youtu.be/YVHRWCUKObI


The main damage was to the resin cast bow roller assembly but I benefitted in the long term by reproducing from scratch in brass



Iím thinking I would not know where to begin if I had to silver solder such as these grab rails



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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #702 on: November 02, 2018, 11:07:43 PM »

Some video same day after the crash
This was in hindsight foolhardy as at this point I did not realise the cause of the loss of control
https://youtu.be/gOwuSJD7j3o
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #703 on: November 03, 2018, 12:33:15 AM »

Taranis,
After my first 1/12th scale lifeboat - the Arun class - I have always silver soldered my brass work for all of the 'heavy duty' railings and stanchion work. These are the most likely to take a knock and I have found with just the normal solder that items have bent, whereas with silver solder there has been a resistance that had led to no damage. The other reason being that in some builds where many 'fiddly' assemblies are required [telecomms masts] it allows for silver solder, normal solder for the 'protected' and non- major pieces and even low melting point solder for some small finer detail in a 'crowded' area. It all works well and was introduced to me by my late friend [and top engineer] Ted. Never had any problems - until this last fortnight. Still not the end of the world, I just went across to me Walkover 555 set-up and the correct nozzle and extra heat cured the problem. It's just what some jewellers use on very small detailed work. The flame can be tuned right down to a needle point and can be very accurate in its application - my wife's uncle used to be a jewellery craftsman for Cartier.
However, your damage was a blessing in disguise, as the new scratch built stem head roller is just a wonderful little creation. As for the videos [I've now watched all three of yours] that boat has a great turn of speed, seems very manoeuvrable and the sound unit is a nice touch, adding a little 'reality'. This should inspire a few more of us to get our boats ready to be on the water for next Spring!
Kim [C.C.]
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #704 on: November 03, 2018, 12:46:40 AM »

Got a small period in the workshop today [a hectic schedule all round], so another couple of steps forward, rather than a total standstill. I cut and made the two bracing rails that run parallel to the top of the pulpit rail. I profiled [cod-mouth] the four ends and here they are sitting in position [dry fitted]. Whether I will get time tomorrow [Saturday morning] to silver solder these into position waits to be seen, as it will be mostly spent at the Cathedral with a full rehearsal with the orchestra in the afternoon and the Concert in the evening.
The unit has been tidied slightly and will be further 'tweaked' once the whole unit is complete. One of the holes drilled in the fore-deck might need filling and re-drilling as it is very slightly out of alignment and is creating a tension in the legs [much like its owners!].

C.C.
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Neil

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #705 on: November 03, 2018, 12:56:48 AM »


I too prefer silver solder over soft solder.....it's hardier, takes knocks, doesn't fracture when older, and it flows well into the joints, with less cleaning up after. it also goes "off" very quickly.....I do use soft solder for very thin brass and copper that a normal propane pencil pin flame from my Sievert torch would normally melt, but use the torch to pre heat before using liquid flux and multicore to flow into the joint on the  thinner gauge sheet such as the life belt hangers.



also when silver soldering, you can localise the area you want to solder with heat sinks, because the heat needed to melt the solder is much higher and therefor can be isolated, whereas using soft solder the heat, even with heat sinks are used, usually ends in having to heat the whole assembly in order to give the soft solder a good enough temp to melt and bind to the metal.


and finally, silver soldering is much quicker.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #706 on: November 03, 2018, 01:14:17 AM »

Yep Neil,
It's 'horses for courses' as they say. When I ran the Model Boat Building Course for the U3A from my home for five years, I did a couple of sessions on the various ways of soldering and then set up little practicals for each of them in the workshop. They all could not believe how easy it was once the three 'musts' - clean joints areas, correct heat and solder for the job, and no movement whilst performing the action. One elderly gentleman said all his life it has been a 'black art' and he had never mastered it. Then came the Coarse and he has never looked back. Whenever we meet, if there is someone else in the conversation he always introduces me as the 'chap that taught me to solder'!! As you know, I always say when things go wrong, as some folk, new to the hobby, think that for some of us nothing ever goes wrong - oh how wrong that is. I hope that it will encourage some to have a go and at least give them an idea of how to rectify matters.
Have a good weekend.
Kim
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #707 on: November 03, 2018, 01:29:22 AM »

Yep Neil,
It's 'horses for courses' as they say. When I ran the Model Boat Building Course for the U3A from my home for five years, I did a couple of sessions on the various ways of soldering and then set up little practicals for each of them in the workshop. They all could not believe how easy it was once the three 'musts' - clean joints areas, correct heat and solder for the job, and no movement whilst performing the action. One elderly gentleman said all his life it has been a 'black art' and he had never mastered it. Then came the Coarse and he has never looked back. Whenever we meet, if there is someone else in the conversation he always introduces me as the 'chap that taught me to solder'!! As you know, I always say when things go wrong, as some folk, new to the hobby, think that for some of us nothing ever goes wrong - oh how wrong that is. I hope that it will encourage some to have a go and at least give them an idea of how to rectify matters.
Have a good weekend.
Kim



and you KIM.




I  have always found silver soldering much easier...Ö..in fact whilst during my teaching career, I used to teach 14-15 year old boys AND  girls both silver and soft soldering, and the kids picked up the former, much more quickly than soft soldering.


I am not saying that all my joints are made using that method as the smaller thinner gauge..20 -24 gauge stuff is suicidal using a propane torch,  and then I use soft solder, but still use a bakers paste flux to aid flow, even though I use multicore I find the former much more satisfying for an ultimately cleaner joint...ÖÖ.I just wish more people would try it before thinking it is beyond them...my Sievert torch cost 50 quid, a propane gas bottle 20 quid and a propane regulator 18 quid.....and it will do virtually anything I need from it....as for breaking a 2mm thick grp deck, I very much doubt it, TBH.


I've hit a fair few concrete banks at speed with my grp hulls and never broken one yet, and the Speedline deck is equally as robust as my hulls that I mould. {-) {-) {-)
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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #708 on: November 03, 2018, 08:30:02 AM »

Thanks for those replies  :-))
I also use different heats and solder types for parts close together and even superglue for a third or further connections.
The crash didnít actually bend my brass rather it burst three solder connections but unfortunately this resulted in one piece being lost in the drink  {-)  the top one piece rail was reused as luck would have it.
These really are fun to sail and attract a lot of attention equally at low speed as at the overscale speed.


On my stern railings I had them built and painted before I realised that the mid to top rail must be exactly 41mm to accommodate the life ring mounts. Using regular solder allowed me to make the necessary adjustments without destroying all the paint

Thanks for the bow roller compliments Kim
This is now finished in Humbrol chrome spray to good effect  :-) 


I donít know if you are aware but the sound unit is a ESS dual that is marketed for 1/10 scale 4x4 rc cars
This can be found on eBay from uk seller for under £60 and has Scania sound file




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ANDY
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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #709 on: November 03, 2018, 01:09:34 PM »

This is in no way a criticism of silver solder it is just that I have not learnt to do it.
The thing I find a major advantage of soft soldering is the ability to solder in place as the GRP will withstand the heat easily. This ensures the foot plate of every stanchion is exactly at the correct angle to the deck

I have seen a number of examples where the cabin front railings fall fowl of being vertical whilst soldering in situ enables better accuracy. The left side of the picture here looks out of plumb but that is the camera lens effect






Surprisingly even the resin will withstand the heat too if quick
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ANDY
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #710 on: December 31, 2018, 11:35:32 PM »

Can't believe that it's almost two months since last 'post' and the IMBS at 'Warwick'. So, I'll catch up over the next few days on matters appertaining to lifeboats and and all things 'Shannon'. But, first......................
  • thanks to all the MBM'ers that came up and spoke [and a few that didn't!!] to me at the Show and for all the PMs and emails since, which I think I have answered.
  • A HAPPY NEW YEAR to all who read this and long may our hobby and this 'thread' continue...............normally in 'grey' for a few more months or years!!
Part of the reason that I am behind on the build and the 'thread' is that I have 'duties' looking after two family members at the moment and this is taking an awful lot of time each day, so this is way down the list of priorities!!
Firstly, I will start with photos from our LBES stand at Warwick - we came second to King Lear MBC, who had a wonderful display and especially the compilation of various boat / vessel video clips - this entertained a good number of folk over the three days, well done King Lear [Again!!]. You might notice a certain 'bright shirt' character, without whom we would have no MBM and also a photo of all those who helped 'man and woman' the pool on the occasions  allotted. I will start at my corner of the stand with my 'in build' and photos alongside some of my memorabilia and the lovely 41' Beach [Aldeburgh] lifeboat diorama built by John Sanders and now owned by me - based on the Dungeness lifeboat. We go around the stand to the wonderful scratch build of the ill fated RNLB Solomon Browne - built by Mick Astle for Paul Parfitt and his collection.
All the best to all around the world and all the best for 2019, just twenty minutes away!!
KB [C.C.]
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #711 on: December 31, 2018, 11:50:42 PM »

Notice here the two MbD Shannons built by Chris Scott - one belongs to Andy [Griggs] and the other is Chris's. Andy tells me has now broken the '200' barrier for the Shannon, so who says scratch building is a 'dying art' in the model boat world?
C.C.
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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #712 on: January 01, 2019, 12:25:50 AM »

Super pics, happy New Year Kim  :-)
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ANDY
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #713 on: January 01, 2019, 12:30:45 AM »

Thanks my friend,
Great to speak to you. Maybe next year you could join us on the stand and water display? You and your boat would be most welcome.
Regards,
Kim
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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #714 on: January 01, 2019, 12:35:32 AM »

I can see no end in sight as building has ceased until the warm weather returns BUT she is proficient on the water finished or not so thank you for the invite. Happy 2019  8)
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ANDY
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #715 on: January 01, 2019, 01:16:50 AM »

Forgot to give credit to the wonderful Sue Kinghoward, who is a great photographer in her own right, for taking our group photograph - which is why most of us are smiling! Thanks Sue,
Kim
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #716 on: January 01, 2019, 01:42:07 PM »

Mr Grey,

Happy New Year Fella, look forward to seeing you soon.

regards,

Martin and Mel
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #717 on: January 09, 2019, 11:39:07 AM »

Now, where I had not succeeded last year in getting my Canterbury jeweller and his laser Birmingham jewellers to laser cut the small 'stencil' font lettering on the upper-steering position gate insert, Arno [swiftdoc] in Germany has :-)) !! I am using his photo here to show the result. So, thanks Arno, that is a wonderful result, for which I am well pleased and will be sending you mine to have laser cut. So if you already have one of my gate inserts [or would like one] and might want the lettering added, here are your options:
  • stay with what you have and use black lettering = no further action this end and no more cost!
  • you have a gate insert, but want it laser cut = send Arno a PM for his address and the necessary Euros 16 for the lettering cutting and postage and when he receives our complete order he will get his jeweller to do the work and will then return our individual gate inserts.
  • you are wanting both a gate insert and the laser lettering added too = send me a PM for my address and either a cheque or the money to my PayPal account [being £30 - £15 for the water-jet cut insert and Euros 16 for the laser cut lettering and £1 towards postage]. Also let me know which Shannon lifeboat you are modelling, as there are three various versions of the 'holes' pattern. This is not cheap, but does give an accurate brass gate insert with the right detail.
It's your choice to go with the offer [for which Arno and myself actually make no profit, but having done the work for ourselves, gives you the option of joining in on the small - but expensive - small runs of the product]. However, to get this moving, we will both need to have the orders in by the end of this month  - January 2019. I will be having a few [maybe four] extras made for the future...........but don't count on these if you want one now. I hope this all makes sense, PM me if not and I will 'enlighten' you!
Kim [C.C.]
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #718 on: February 16, 2019, 04:55:30 PM »

The postman has bought my five Shannon gate inserts back from Germany and the Anglo-German project has succeeded [whatever the Brexit Project is doing, or not!]. So thank you Arno [swiftdoc] for making a 'little dream come true' - this modeller has a grin across his face 'like a Cheshire cat'! There are still four in my workshop - the details appear above, should you want one.
I have also got my seats from France [so has Arno], so to that effect I will hope to get the basic resin casts photographed tomorrow and onto this 'thread'. Chris will be selling them to interested 1/12th Shannon builders, so watch this space.
To that end I went down to Dungeness RNLI last Wednesday and took a detailed set of photographs to help modellers understand their build, set-up and operation - should you want to make a detailed set. A few photos are attached, but these also show the new range of instruments and throttle and bucket controls for the new Hamilton Water-jet AVX3 system - there are differences, both in the wheelhouse and also mirrored in the USP [upper steering position]. I was allowed to have a 'fiddle' with these and see them work and alter the display - great fun! That was why 13-02 has been at Poole HQ for around three months, where she also had other modifications made [interior 'beefing up' of the deck furniture that takes large loads]. The Engineer also told me the rear of the keel had been lengthened by 6" and also 'beefed'.
That's all for this Post. More to follow in the next couple of days and with the inspiration of Mk1's Shannon, tractor and trailer build and from the photos's of Arno's Italian Bigliani Coastguard build, maybe I'll get to do some more modelling myself!!
Canterbury Coxswain
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #719 on: February 18, 2019, 03:09:21 AM »

Here are the cast white resin seats set produced by Chris [Mr Plastic] over in Burgundy, France. They are a very good basis to make a start on what could be a long build without them. The photo does not quite show the padded seat edges and surrounds - they are a very good reproduction of the real thing. The amount you detail them up will be down to you! I shall start a build of one later in the week when my 1/12th seat belts and carbon fibre decals arrive. Notice the template for the side plates of each seat at the bottom of the photo. If you want a set they are Euros 35 + p&p. Contact Chris via a PM to get his details and preferred payment method. I shall photograph the relevant RNLI plans sections I will be using for my detail tomorrow and put them here on the thread.
Also here is a photo of the radar motor box - also made by Chris. A PM to him will likewise get you the cost + p&p. I will eventually cut mine in half, mill out the middle of each section, make a small working hinge and then put a small motor inside to turn the radar scanner at 26rpm!
Finally, a photo of the small set of broach / reamer files I spoke of in a recent Post here.
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #720 on: February 18, 2019, 03:21:30 AM »

I have just re-worked the seat photograph to hopefully show the seat swab detail and also the shoulder pads on the top of each side of the back swab. I should have used a +/- switch [for white on white and black on black] on the camera, but forgot!
C.C.


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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #721 on: February 18, 2019, 09:55:20 AM »

Hi Kim,
 Good to have you back with your build, those seats from Chris look really interesting.
The seats on 17-09 are from KAB Seating and their website say they supply seats for the RNLI, the ones on 17-09 are KAB 524's and look a bit different to the Shannon ones in your photo's, a bit beefier, but then, the Severn is bigger. (and better) !!!   LOL
17-09
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #722 on: February 18, 2019, 11:55:27 PM »

I have a number of email catch-ups with Arno [swiftdoc] each week and a few WhatsApp video calls every now and then. He has sent me some photos of his Italian Coastguard Bigliani vessel, an unusual subject and for me a lovely looking vessel. When he has finished this he will make a start on the one of his two Shannon class lifeboats - the MbD 1/12th scale one, I believe. The Bigliani is a really nicely built model, getting near the final moments............and it's GREY Martin........but by design!! He has agreed for me to show you all a few photos - we await with bated breath the Shannon build!
As they say on the other side of the 'pond' - 'enjoy'. Great work Arno on another SAR type vessel model build.
Kim
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Taranis

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #723 on: February 19, 2019, 07:35:47 AM »

A very interesting vessel Doc  :-))  lovely to see thanks for sharing :-)


Kim
I have a spare motor for the radar if youíd rather put it in the T frame? I owe you one
Action electronic voltage controller can achieve the desired speed
The noise is not as bad as the iPhone camera might have you believe having a keen microphone


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3SMWFPg/0/3e462c2f/1920/i-3SMWFPg-1920.mp4


Underside



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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #724 on: February 19, 2019, 04:22:37 PM »

Andy that is a very kind offer and a another great way of concealing the motor and driving the radar scanner round - thanks. I am sending you a PM. The video looks so realistic with that sweep speed.
Kim
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