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Author Topic: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build  (Read 273480 times)

craggle

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #275 on: February 13, 2017, 08:43:53 am »

Hi Kim

If you ever need a slower curing resin take a look at this from Easycomposites.
http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/resin-gel-silicone-adhesive/epoxy-resin/EL2-epoxy-laminating-resin.html
I'm using it with the slow cure resin on my Severn build and you have a good hour, possible 2 hours to play with it before it starts to cure.

Craig.
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TimpdonG

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #276 on: February 13, 2017, 07:20:50 pm »

Kim,


I have been following this thread for months now, as I build my own Shannon, and your CD of photographs has been invaluable. I can not proceed with the hull, as it needs painting next and the weather is too cold, so I transferred effort to the cabin.


You may be interested in my interpretation of the cabin interior. It is designed as a free standing unit, slots into the deck well and butts up to the inside of the superstructure.


GeoffG
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #277 on: February 13, 2017, 11:22:07 pm »

Craig - many thanks for that invaluable link. The EL2 will be ordered in the next couple of days as the AT30 package. This is going to help a lot of folk following this 'thread' and passing the information on to others. Appreciated.
GeoffG - Glad the photos have been useful, makes it all worthwhile. You have certainly put them to good use, that is a seriously very neat looking scratch built interior for your Shannon - well done. The illuminated screens look good. Did you use 'grain of wheat' or LED for the back-lighting? Which RNLI Station's Shannon are you making?

Well, thanks gents. If there are any others out there who have made a start, do please feel free to post them on this 'thread' - plus any tips, what has gone well and maybe even what has not!!

I shall now endeavour to edit today's photos of the build and Post them here.
Thanks again for the interest.
Kim
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mk1

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #278 on: February 14, 2017, 07:31:16 am »

Hi GeoffG nice to see another build of a Shannon I was beginning to wonder if there were other people out there building one. I like the look of the inside very nice keep up the postings.

John
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Flundle (Speedline Models)

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #279 on: February 14, 2017, 12:43:42 pm »

I think you have made a great job of the interior. I have just read through this thread for the first time in ages and I am most impressed with what I see. The jet drives particularly interesting for me just now. This looks like its going to be a super model when its all done and dusted.
Adrian




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TimpdonG

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #280 on: February 14, 2017, 05:19:39 pm »

Thanks all for the kind words on the cabin interior.


Kim, my boat will be 13-66, "Timpdon Lifeboat" - that way nobody can say "The real one was not like that". I have not chosen a name yet.
Sorry to disappoint you, but the cabin screens are not back lit, just paper prints and varnish over the top.


My hull is now masked waiting for a fine day so that I can start painting [outside]. It is the eternal problem. Once I fit the deck I can not get at quite a bit of the insides if changes are needed. So I need to ballast and sail her before then. But I can not fit the working bits of the jet drives and the metal hull skids until the hull is painted... and so it goes on.


All of the control system and electronics are designed, built and tested, so I am confident that all motors and servos are working correctly and calibrated. The radio system is a custom 2.4 GHz system designed and built by myself - Electronics is my primary area of expertise. The photo shows the transmitter.


When I can finally get the hull painted, I will get the jet drives fully working, refit all of the innards, sort out the ballasting and test sail her. Only then will I fit and complete the deck. Then I can paint and finish the superstructure with the mast and the rest of the fittings.


GeoffG
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mrzippy

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #281 on: February 14, 2017, 07:34:30 pm »

Hi Kim,

Great to see the build progressing and very interesting reading, I would like to add a small comment about my own experience
with Easycomposites slow cure resin,  used in February 2016 (and cold weather is relevant).

I skinned the outside of my Balsa hulled paddle steamer with EL2 and 100g glass cloth,
the long working time was a great benefit, but the long curing time (3 days left indoors and still tacky) was a suprise.

I contacted a more than helpful technical guy at Easycomposites HQ in Stoke - made a refreshing change !
he advised lots of warmth to help with drying during winter months,
and went into great detail about how the resin absorbs water whilst drying??.

I didn't have the heart to tell him my hull had been resting against a hot radiator for three days
and was barely dry enough, to begin to think about paint prep, felt sticky like a post-it-note,
but eventually dried and Halfords best did the rest, hope this may be of interest.

regards Paul
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #282 on: February 15, 2017, 01:09:13 am »

I've been called away on 'family matters', so a day late in Posting this.
Adrian - good to see that you are back.
GeoffG - well that fooled me! I took several looks and still think they are illuminated - but you should know. Still a wonderful interior, but an even better 2.4gHz set-up - now that really is clever and extremely neat. Good job you are not too near me, otherwise I would be 'worrying' you for so many little bits of technical wizardry!!
Paul - thanks for the resin experience and input, I am sure that will be a help to a number planning to do their own 'laying up', however, I must say I would not advocate putting anything next to a radiator - it could dry it out too fast and might even warp it [both the wood or the resin hull]. That's why, I believe, the professionals state that a hull is still 'green' up to six months after it has been 'laid up' and 'pulled' from the mould. So it's always worth checking as the months proceed - keep it supported and laid flat so that it can dry 'normally' with no undue pressures - there are ways of correcting this should the unthinkable happen. Just to say my two areas around the water-jets have gone off well and are not 'tacky' to the touch.

I have again put a good number of sequential photos here to show the progression of my process for removing the underside of the hull and the apertures for the water- intake area. The steps taken were:
  • Make a cardboard cut-out of the base plate profile of the water-jet. This should have also had a line scribed around the inside showing the 1/8" actual contact surface. I will do this for the Starboard side - if I remember when I get back. Hope to do this either Thursday or Friday.
  • Noticed that my initial marked areas for these intakes on the masking tape were around 1/4" too near the keel. You might be able to see I re-drew these with a pencil line. I had put these on before I had drawn the centre line from the plates on the transom area down and under onto the hull bottom.
  • I started by drilling large holes down the centre line, but making sure I did not allow the drill to progress too far inside, where it would have started to drill into the water-jet casing. This was with the Proxxon screwdriver at a low speed.
  • I then decided I would use a diamond cutting disc to remove a rectangle of the hull.
  • Then I put a drum cylinder sander in the chuck, but in this instance the progress was too slow, so proceeded to use my Dremel at 5,000rpm.
  • Proceeding slowly and with constant removal of the dust created [so I could see where I was going] I got closer to the internal edge surface of the water-jet intake.
  • The masking tape from the inside was removed and each time I drilled or sanded I stuff a scrunched up kitchen towel sheet and put it into it.
  • When I was almost finished I reverted to hand files and a little bit of 800 grade paper around a small square piece of teak wood, especially where the slope is that is the front straight edge of the intake.
  • I will add a thin layer of UPol [P38] Body Filler when I get back and then sand back by hand with 800 ans 1200 grade wet and dry paper.
Well, I hope that all makes sense and is useful to someone. You will notice that towards the end I used correcting fluid to take away the wrongly drawn black line, it was interfering with my spacial awareness.
C.C.


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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #283 on: February 15, 2017, 01:24:27 am »

Here are the final photos for the process above.
This whole process needs to be done a little at a time, constantly feeling the ledge / edge being created and removing the masked tape that sticks up, just so you really can see what you are doing. Remember, this was a first for me and I really do hope the next one goes as well! My advice, just do not hurry it.
C.C.
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Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #284 on: February 15, 2017, 08:30:47 am »

Hi Kim
Nice job on cutting out the intake are you going to put a grid
over the intakes to stop stuff being sucked into the drives ?

Regards

Derek
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #285 on: February 15, 2017, 10:59:34 am »



All of the control system and electronics are designed, built and tested, so I am confident that all motors and servos are working correctly and calibrated. The radio system is a custom 2.4 GHz system designed and built by myself - Electronics is my primary area of expertise. The photo shows the transmitter.



GeoffG

Hi Geoff,

I am in AWE over your transmitter, as I expect others will be when they see this.

That is really impressive and  'Just the job'  for fellow boaters.  It's something I've always wanted to do myself and  'may'  copy this myself one day. I should imagine this will be of great interest to members.     :-))     :-))

Well done on a great idea.

Cheers

ken
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #286 on: February 16, 2017, 12:09:33 am »

Hi Derek,
Yes, I am planning to make them as per the real item on the boat, with a plate either end that screws into place and then has parallel bars spaced across the width, but running bow to stern. Now I have had the milling machine repaired I aim to mill these out in aluminium and shape the 'blades. Only time will tell how successful I have been. Remember, Andy G. did have a problem with the bits of straw that were floating in the pond at Headcorn, as his intakes were 'open' at the time. Likewise a few years back now, at the Beale Park show the wind had blown the little leaves of a larch tree, or similar, and every time the wind blew across the pond they came away from the edge and fowled everyone's boats - it only happened the one year. So the short answer - yes.
Are you fully fit now? We didn't get to speak much at 'Ali Pali' did we?
Cheers,
Kim
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Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #287 on: February 16, 2017, 01:13:55 pm »

Hi Kim
Knee is coming along nicely thank you but I wont be running the London Marathon
this year  {-)

Del
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colin-stevens

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #288 on: February 16, 2017, 05:30:47 pm »

I found that when i did my Pibber(kehrer jet driven) I needed to put in something to stop ingress of pond debris. I used brass rod x 3 length ways across each inlet.
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Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #289 on: February 16, 2017, 05:59:06 pm »

Hi Kim
I think when I used these drives I used 3 wires lengthways
over the hole like Colin is saying.
I feel if you make the grids scale like the ones in the picture
you will restrict the water flow through the jets to much and will
reduce the performance of the boat.
Most of the muck and flotsom in the ponds we use is not scale remember.
and I found 3 X 1.2mm wires was more than enough to stop muck getting in the drives.

Hope this helps.

Del
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #290 on: February 17, 2017, 11:57:54 pm »

Colin and Derek,
Thanks for your thought on the 'grills'. To start with when I give it its first outing I will have no grills on, just to see what the unfettered thrust is like. Later I will add the 'near scale' versions and see what that is like. I will then refine - if required. Remember, the thickness of the seven  bars on the real vessel will be slightly thinner than scale on my model and the leading edges [fore and underneath] have a 'sharpened' edge. Also the whole unit is lower at the bow pointing end and angled up towards the stern facing end, even to the point that the end plate is an external hull surface fit. Different! Hope the first 'on water' test will be around the end of March, once the initial electrics and servos board has been designed and fitted.
Kim
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #291 on: February 18, 2017, 12:23:35 am »

Now, I was not going to Post the Starboard water-jet outlet process and photos, as it was to have been the same as the Port side. However, I decided to cut a few of the initial steps out and start with the diamond disk immediately. Also I marked up the area to be cut out right at the outset. Having done it I stood back and made sure it looked OK. Then I re-measured from one side and even measured and checked from the other side. I just did not want this one to go wrong, seeing as the first one went well.
I also added a shot of the interior of the unit [pointing to the rear] to show the 'conical' shaped end of the shaft tube that has the phosphur bronze bearing [the forward facing end of the shaft tube has the ball bearing race fitting].
You will notice I have cut down the cardboard template to the actual size of aperture to be cut out.
You will also notice the point at which I took out the masking tape from the internal pipe and replaced it with a crumpled piece of kitchen towel. This was to stop the debris going into the bearing. That leads me onto my last point; if we are looking after the bearing, don't forget your lungs and wear a face mask to stop the fine glass fibre dust from both the hull and the water-jet housing material going down your tubes!!
C.C.
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derekwarner

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #292 on: February 18, 2017, 05:34:59 am »

CC....thanks for the PM response on Jet drive geometry etc  :-))

With respect to the water inlet 'grills', I would be inclined to agree to mil the slots to scale proportions complete with the tapered leading edge works

Test 1. [in the bath tub with two drives installed] could be one motor driving one jet drive without the water inlet grill, complete with an ammeter wired in series & if possible with the brushless ESC

Record the current draw at a few point levels with the ESC. Record any other results that are remarkable

Test 2. complete an exact set of Test.1 procedure, however with the water grills installed
______________________________________________________________

Review then publicise the Test results for comment by experienced MBM people that have built the same/similar vessel for comparison
______________________________________________________________
One of the problems you face here is that full size flotsam [leaves] will offer little resistance or damage to a full sized vessel drive, however the same sized flotsam [leaves] may cause issues and damage  >>:-( to the scale size impellor

Looking forward to the test comparison results

Derek

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Derek Warner

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TimpdonG

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #293 on: February 18, 2017, 02:56:40 pm »

Another take on inlet grilles for the water jets.
As I do not have a milling machine, I had to resort to making an approximation to the real thing by fabrication. The frame is in 0.7 mm thick brass strip, and the bars are 1.6 mm brass rod.
To solder, I applied solder paste to all joining surfaces, clamped everything down on a heatproof surface, and used a cooks blow lamp to melt the solder paste and bond everything together. After a bit of cleaning up, the overall result looks fairly realistic, and should not restrict water flow too much.


GeoffG
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #294 on: February 18, 2017, 06:20:05 pm »

GeoffG,
That looks absolutely marvellous! Very neat and purposeful. Much as I was hoping to fabricate, but I want to make mine in aluminium to look somewhat like that in the picture of the real lifeboat. I also want to fabricate all my stanchions and railings in aluminium too - something new to me in the construction of this particular boat.
If you look at my build thread of the Ramsgate Trent lifeboat way down the same page as the Shannon, you will see lots of pieces I have made there in brass and stainless steel, so I know just what goes into these items. Well done and thanks for posting here, because this just might be the way forward for a few others [and there are many] building this model - who knows if I fail in 'ali' I would end up doing it this way and then spraying in the right coloured metal paint, but hope I can succeed in 'ali' this time. Just got in from 17-09's where we have had a great day talking model lifeboats and catching up on latest news. I will be Posting a small bit later on the way he has started to use the resin hex nuts and heads from the Russian manufacturer.
Keep it coming, this all helps for discussion and ideas. It will soon be a balmy Spring day when we can be enjoying our Shannons on the water!
Kim
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #295 on: February 19, 2017, 12:39:56 am »

Spent a large part of today down on the white cliffs of Dover with 17-09 today, Looking at tools and other items recently purchased for model boat building and also looking at the progress on his model of the Severn Class lifeboat 17-09 and my Shannon. Alan's detail is coming together well, but he has allowed me to post these two photos I took.
  • The first is of the different hex heads and bolts used. The larger ones are those from Speedline Models, then there are others made from the RP Toolz punch and die set which uses styrene sheet. Those on the radar screen surround and along bottom of the windscreen base are the ones shown on the previous page 10 of this 'thread', made from resin and coming loose in a packet and made by the Russian firm MasterClub.
  • The second one is shown for two reasons. Firstly, as it shows that there are some small differences creeping in on the Shannon lifeboats, something the RNLI did say was not going to happen, so it pays to keep your eyes open when detailing a particular boat, especially if you are getting your photos from a number of sources. This front survivors' hatch cover is the normal paint scheme for most Trents and Severns, but look at the great shots just put on a separate 'thread' by mini-mariner for the Skegness lifeboat 13-17 - the anti-slip pattern on the paintwork is in alternate diagonal stripes. I also am showing this shot to show Alan's use of the Alclad paint 'polished aluminium'. The stainless steel paint from them is more of a gunmetal colour. So, again it pays to experiment and see what looks right to you. [Ignore the little corner hole - this is currently having the locking handle being made].
C.C.
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swiftdoc

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #296 on: February 19, 2017, 08:55:34 am »

A real masterpiece! Please tell,us how the anti-slip structure was achieved. I use Alclad polished aluminium for my formula 1 models and can highly recommend the paint. The effect is very realistic.
Regards Arno
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #297 on: February 19, 2017, 07:14:41 pm »

Hello Arno,
Thanks for your kind comments, Kim has asked me to reply to your question on his thread.
 The anti-slip finish is in fact Halfords Textured Paint rattle can, readily available here in the UK. I see you are in Germany. Halfords are a supplier of motor and cycle parts together with accessories over here. The area’s not to be textured are masked off then given a couple of light coats of the paint, the finish is very good and even, my only concern was that it did take a long time to dry. The hinges and other parts that were added for the detail that were made from brass were temporarily attached before texturing, when removed this left a neat footprint for them to be refitted later. You can see on the picture where the locking handle will go for instance. These components that had the texture over them before cleaning remained tacky for a long time. The hatch was then sprayed lifeboat orange. Because several coats of paint were required to get the depth of colour the textured areas became slightly clogged with paint which has made the finish look a little heavier than I would have liked but it is acceptable. The curved clear area in the centre is for the hatch opening graphics to be added later. The areas in front of the wheelhouse and the cabin top are also treated this way, I did find that because the gloss paint reflected all the minute little undulations too much, I had to re-mask and spray the areas again with a very thin clear satin varnish coat.  The real boats get quite dirty on those textured non-slip areas which does change the colour slightly, this is quite noticeable in some photographs.
The Alclad II is a very nice paint, I used a gloss black undercoat as advised and sprayed at the low pressure required, I am happy with the finish of Polished Aluminium and do think it looks right on this model.
 Sorry for the protracted answer.
        Regards  17-09
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #298 on: February 20, 2017, 09:08:27 am »

Hi 17-09,

thank you very much for explaining how you achieved the ant-slip finish. I use Standox car paints for my ship models. It is professional car paint and they mix you any colour you need. I had not heard about texture additives so far. I will ask at the local paint shop next time. I am sure they have something similar. If not, I will buy a can of the Halfords stuff during my next visit to the UK.

As for the Alclad II Polished Aluminium, it has to be painted over a black gloss undercoat, otherwise you do not achieve the shiny effect. And remember always to wear a mask: the metal particles are very small and the paint smells really awful.

Regards

Arno
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #299 on: February 21, 2017, 11:23:45 am »

When I ventured into the workshop last weekend I decided to:
  • use the Proxxon 'screwdriver' with a 'ball' end drill [of which a few folk following this Thread have told me in PMs that they have now purchased one and find it a very useful little tool, especially with the fact that it can be controlled at very low rpms, but still have a fair amount of torque - for which there is also a variable setting collar] to tidy up the exit hole surround for each water-jet so that the slight surplus of the Gorilla glue would not foul any  area of the back of the plate when re-attached.......
  • re-tap the M2 threads to the internal plate of each water-jet, just in case the cocktail sticks had held the plates in place, but not stopped the glue expanding into the thread area. In fact it there was some small ingress, so the process cleared this out........
  • re-assemble the water-jet nozzles.......
  • re-attach the motors, thus giving the actual area available for the electronics board and showing where the limitation and spacings were regarding the motors. This is now in my mind and being planned.
There is still a little tidying of the water-jet inlet apertures to be made, but I will do this once I have made a covering grille for each and ascertained my method of fixing them - just saves doing the job twice!
I have also ordered the materials to make the underneath bulges that support the hull when on the carriage - to which I plan to incorporate my water pick-up nozzles. Likewise I am still thinking about which material to use to make the stern spray rails. I was going to make them in teak and then spray them, but Andy advised against this due to the oil in the wood and the paint adherence  - there speaks experience! Thanks.
A little packet has just turned up from Kehrer in Germany with a couple of little 'variables' for the water-jets [Andy had informed me of these a couple of months ago], so will explain in the next Post, once I have had a moment to look and 'experiment' with the possible fitting.

C.C.
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