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Author Topic: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build  (Read 273451 times)

Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #300 on: February 21, 2017, 05:43:44 pm »

Hi Kim

I am impressed,  O0 O0 O0

Del
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #301 on: February 23, 2017, 03:19:32 pm »

Derek,
You're so[ooo] kind, but it's good to know you are still around. It will soon be time to start meeting again at Shows and on the water - just the day for yachts today though, with these winds. However, today I'm in the workshop making the prototype water-jet inlet grille - haven't broken the milling machine yet! Might Post results on the first one tomorrow.
Today I'm just adding some shots of the bits that arrived from Kehrer Modellbau the other day. I will attempt to make a 'bulleted' list of the ten photographs, remembering that I am using a commercially bought product and the directional nozzles are concentric within the plate [the actual ones are eccentric at the bottom] and these nozzles [fitted to my model and shown so far] are larger that the actual lifeboat ones - but Andy has fitted them, they work and give plenty of speed - hence a 'starter for ten'[:
  • [P1220114] an on top view of the 'steerable' nozzle against the RNLI plans - this is to show that the length of projection is about the same and looks a little more like the real thing. However, two points to remember here, 1] the whole of the end unit moves left and right, whereas on the actual unit the length stays fixed and a smaller nozzle moves port and starboard within it. 2] As and when reversing buckets are fitted they will need to be wide enough to take this into account - of course the unit could be shortened a little to accommodate this. This is still being thought about. These were Euros 5 each.
  • [P1220115] a 3/4 view from underneath
  • a shot of the spray limiter ring [I bought four - they are Euros 2 each - so I could experiment on two of them. They are not designed to be used with the actual water-jet units I bought JET28-05, but the Jet28-01 and 02 units.
  • [P1220119] the spray limiter fitted to the 'stator' box exit piece [with out my cross hair stator glued in yet].
  • [P1220118] the same spray limiter press fitted inside the 'new' nozzle - for which it is designed.
  • [P1220120] the unit
  • [P1220121] the same unit angled
  • [P1220092] the unit fitted to plate and angled
  • [P1220093] ditto - side view
  • [P1220094] ditto - underneath view
This all gives 'food for thought', as they say. Regarding the spray limiter, if you look back at some of my photos of the nozzle units fixed to the plates on the stern you can sometimes see the white masking tape - this is the gap which I want to limit, thus proving more force [power stern-wards] and less spray around the stern area.

Back to the work shop now, with a strong cup of tea!! :-)
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #302 on: February 24, 2017, 11:58:20 pm »

Any engineers watching this Thread - look away now!! You'll need more than a strong cup of tea.
I have never been an engineer [don't need to tell us, say the engineers!], however, to get onto my milling machine and start making the grille for the starboard water-jet yesterday I did not check the 'slack' [backlash] etc.,. on the newly mended [electrical circuit board] machine - the pictures will prove that. So, being the prototype I decided to just go ahead and see if the process in my mind would give me the reality I needed. This was what I did, purely to use up some old aluminium stock I had lying around.
  • I cut down a piece of angle ali, using an end mill cutter, to produce a piece of 'flat'.
  • Then I drew the shape onto that and a centre line, emboldening the scribing with 'engineers' blue' - I still have it in the cracks on my thumbs and fore-fingers [does any one know what gets it off? Nothing I have does, including copious amounts of Swarfega].
  • I then used a 1/8" end drill to start to mill out a channel, gradually increasing the depth until it created a slot, which I elongated to the desired length. All the time the piece of work was at an angle so as to give me an 'entry angle' into the channels - somewhat similar to the real item, however, when looking at the end result you will see I am about halfway between 'a grille' and the real thing.
  • This continued until I cut the 5th on and stood back - I then saw the horrible 'wobble' lines and the different widths!! Sometimes it just pays to walk away. This I did until today.
  • This afternoon I went back to the piece of work and then fettled [by hand - is there any other way?] the longitudinal bars to the knife edge shape the real grilles posses and little by little I feel I salvaged the Prototype! There is still a little way to go, but I am more pleased with the result. The underside still needs the end of each channel to be slanted further [the start of the process is visible]. To get this I used a Swiss file and the Proxxon delta sander and finger sander.
Well, that is it. When done I must start to make the second one - for me always the hardest thing to do. There are some nineteen photos to show the process, so a double Posting to get them all in.
Please do not be put off with what I have done - there are 'many ways to skin a cat'!!

C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #303 on: February 25, 2017, 12:04:48 am »

The final photos for this Post of the Prototype grille.
C.C.
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colin-stevens

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #304 on: February 25, 2017, 09:52:07 am »

Very nice, not a straight forward piece of machining. good job.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #305 on: February 25, 2017, 10:42:12 am »


Nice result from your perseverance.     :-))

ken

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #306 on: February 28, 2017, 12:20:40 pm »

Colin and Ken, thanks for your encouragement. This made me fettle a little more and I have now completed the process on this grille, now awaiting the drilling and milling of the fixing holes.
It can be noticed that by showing the grille against the 1/12th RNLI scale plan that the end shape is different and that it is not as long as the actual grille on the real boat [hidden beyond the bilge keel on this plan].
I have taken a close-up of the underneath to show how I have filed out a tapering end on the stern of each slot, hoping this will allow the water to 'flow' better, rather than hit a flat end and create unnecessary 'disturbance'.

Kim [C.C.]
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #307 on: February 28, 2017, 05:48:49 pm »

I got a reply from the RNLI Engineers' Dept yesterday [at last] after my enquiry of 16th November, 2016. This was regarding the grey colours for the deck anti-slip and the deck [gloss] edging. I'll put this below, along with a little research I have done today:
  • Deck paint 3M Scotch-weld non-slip 7888 anti-slip coating RNLI PNO 12037 [Product Number] - Extra Dark Sea Grey with No.36 aluminium oxide grit. The nearest RAL number I can find is 5008 and for the British Standard is BS640. Pantone colour is 432C and AFNOR colour 2605.
  • Deck margin [edging] is PPG CA 8300 and RNLI PNO 13806 - top coat grey gloss, being a two component polyurethane finish for aerospace [Desothane]. The nearest RAL is 830-1 and also known as BAC 707.
These can be looked at on www.ralshop.com and holmanpaint.co.uk colour charts. The sections in italics are my research. Please make up your own mind before committing! I did find on one other colour chart that this came out as a yellow/green - so beware. It would be nice to buy a tin and use it - however, one of the smallest cost 500+ before tax!
I have added a couple of shots to show the margin / edge 'gloss' or semi-gloss - your choice.
C.C.
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colin-stevens

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #308 on: February 28, 2017, 06:58:30 pm »

Nicely done on the grills. sweet.

Halfords do a rattle can that gives a non slip texture. As I remember there are 3 grades.

Carry on with the good work. look forward to the updates.
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Macsmouldings

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #309 on: February 28, 2017, 08:51:10 pm »

Kim, good to see you still working in Grey  :-))

Keep up the good work Fella

regards,

Mac
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #310 on: March 01, 2017, 07:34:23 am »

Hi Kim,

the grilles look superb :-))

I think RAL 5008 is too dark for the deck. I have the original RAL colour scheme from their shop (www.ral-shop.com it has to be) and think RAL 7031 would be more appropriate regarding the pics of the original ship on your CD. Choosing a colour is always a difficult thing, especially from a non calibrated monitor. Maybe I will take the RAL scheme (it's a small pocket one) with me when I visit the Dungeness lifeboat station this summer....

Regards
Arno
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derekwarner

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #311 on: March 01, 2017, 08:57:41 am »

Sorry Arno.........CC has more work to complete the final profiles on these grills

The leading edges to each of the fins and the outer landings must be feathered down to a near knife edge ok2

Kim knows this   O0 ....we will just wait for the outcome ......

Don't you just love the extreme detail in text an images of the build thread?... :-)) :-)) :-))...full credit to the Author!


Derek
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kinmel

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #312 on: March 01, 2017, 09:41:08 am »

Sorry Arno.........CC has more work to complete the final profiles on these grills

The leading edges to each of the fins and the outer landings must be feathered down to a near knife edge ok2

Kim knows this   O0 ....we will just wait for the outcome ......

Don't you just love the extreme detail in text an images of the build thread?... :-)) :-)) :-)) ...full credit to the Author!

Derek

Derek, you are a man of little faith. Kim has a dozen photos of the grille and would never make such a mistake.

That is the trailing edge, not the leading edge.
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derekwarner

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #313 on: March 01, 2017, 11:16:44 am »

Sorry kinmel  :o...

I understand you may think we are upside down, however from detailed example to date I have supreme faith in the constructor and the build to represent a faithful and accurate scale model

From the images I see, the trailing end of the fin insert has the rounded geometry profile, accordingly I was to believe the leading ends to the insert were to be bevelled to a knife edge as being on the leading or flat square end ;D

But hey, please let CC correct me if I am upsidedown :-))

Derek
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kinmel

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #314 on: March 01, 2017, 11:33:48 am »

Sorry Derek

You are correct about it being the leading edge, I looked at the wrong photo of the grille .....    :((
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derekwarner

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #315 on: March 02, 2017, 12:45:42 am »

Kim.....you are displaying and showing an ever increasing number of aluminium model components or sub assemblies

For the items that are not to be painted, have you considered completing the total number of these non coated parts and have them hard anodised with a natural finish [colour] & in a batch lot to minimise costs?
 
This hard anodised is an interesting process that converts the aluminium substrate from 20m to 70m micron in both depth & dimensional growth.......naturally the only components that would be subjected to actual [gross] water erosion would be the two water inlet fin plates

Interesting reading......Derek

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=16&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiIio6ry7bSAhWHVZQKHffLBrwQFghiMA8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmetalfinishingsltd.co.uk%2Ftreatments%2Fhard-anodising%2F&usg=AFQjCNEIaAweZNwXtkt9bPnSRSDg5qYUqg
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #316 on: March 02, 2017, 11:27:21 am »

Gentlemen, let's not 'fall out' over the leading [entry] edge of the water-jet inlet's grille! Only joking. It's good that each has looked and given feedback - all appreciated.
Firstly, remember two things that I said - 1] that as I was using the commercial KMB Jet28s I would make a grille that was 'close' to the original. In this prototype I have mimicked the entry, but kept to the rounded profile of the KMB unit upon exit [stern end]. If this allows the water to flow and do its job within the unit I will probably leave the design as it is. 2] However, I also said there is 'more than one way to skin a cat' - just look at GeoffG's wonderful brass grille on 18th February - Page12 above. I might go this way, should I have to, in aluminium - it does appear it will cover the whole area, as on the real vessel and look the part, even if not submerged within the actual inlets 'mouth'. It's neat, easier to make without machinery and looks the part! Let's see if anyone else using these units has come up with another way forward.
To that end I have re-visited the 'entry' shaping - even though the inboard bars did have bevelled ends - and then hand shaped the ends to a sharp point. I think this will aid the entry water a little. Derek, I will fill the little ruts in the hull surface once the filler is next out and mixed!  You will also notice I have now added the two 1.6mm threaded screws - you will see where I made the one side just that 1mm thinner [wrongly] it translates into a very small bulge where there is not enough material to accommodate the screw, this will be adjusted on the second one [Port side], then later maybe a new one to replace this one!
So, Derek thanks for bringing this to my attention and Kinmel thanks for being so loyal in your thoughts towards me. It was all worked out in the end - excuse the pun.
Martin [Macs Mouldings] and Arno - there are more than 'Forty Shades of Grey', that could make a great title for a book! Seriously, Arno, the manufacturer's title does say 'extra dark sea grey' and it really is on the deck paint. That is what made me ask the question of the RNLI. Look at my two 'ringed' close-up shots, especially of the bottom of the stanchion and it's foot-plate, the edging grey is the lighter colour the anti-slip used to be on previous lifeboats, but in recent refurbs even these boats are coming back with a darker grey coating. Like you I will get a better look in the next couple of weeks when I make another visit - I'll try and get the paint label details from Trevor Bunneythe engineer. I looked at the three numbers for RAL, BS and the Pantone quoted by 3M Scotch and they were all pretty much the same dark grey.
Colin - thanks for reminding folk that Halfords now do a rattle-can of textured paint. There are three, but I think it is just the colour that is different - grey, stone and green. I stand to be corrected though. B&Q also do one [used to be by Rustolean] and this is now by Valspar. Spray very lightly, coat by coat and the amount required can be built up from very fine to a coarse grade - your choice.
Finally, two things Derek - 1] the encouragement given in my way of presenting this Thread. I enjoy doing it, but mainly want it to help anyone attempting either this Shannon build or any other boat build for the first time, hence the number of photos and also admitting and showing mistakes made. I have had quite a few PMs saying that it is being very helpful, but I also get a number of phone calls from those passed on by Andy at Models by Design who do not have a computer and the access to this thread. I just hope it helps in a little way, but all your thoughts, help and encouragement keeps me going. 2] Thanks for the information regarding anodising - interesting reading and a valuable starting point, especially as they are down in Dorset. Not sure whether I will go that far yet, but will consider, once a few items have been made and my early ideas of 'fine sand blasting' has been tried - more later.
Well, will end now and hope to tidy workshop and then get the final two screw holes drilled and the underside supports made, tapped and glued into position.
My regards to each and all other readers here.
Kim
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Delboy1958

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #317 on: March 03, 2017, 10:27:32 am »

Hi Kim
That grill has come out really well.
I wonder if that could be a master
to get them cast in white metal ?

Regards
Del
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #318 on: March 03, 2017, 11:49:20 am »

Derek,
That's a good point - I had not thought of that, I have all the equipment and rubber / silicone compound, so might make a set when I have completed the second one, as I hope to have corrected the small mistake in this one. Thanks for the idea.
Kim
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #319 on: March 04, 2017, 07:32:08 am »

Hi Kim you said for people to put on what they made so her are 2 pictures of the way I just fitted KBM water jets. They are  level across the hull and they are angled 5 deg downwards towards the  back of the hull this is how they are fitted in the Shannon hull. The grill is only one I made out of plasticard to see what it would look like a Brass one will be made later as I have no way of making a Aluminium one. I also fitted the 2 runners that are used for the transporter wheels to run on. I have drilled these and put nozzles on them so I can use them to cool the motors. Will post more pictures and info as I work out how to do the rest.

John
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #320 on: March 04, 2017, 07:48:04 am »

Hi Kim and all did you know that the rear water jet plates that Andy now makes are made with the large hole in the middle about 3mm off centre downwards so this would be more like the real jet plates. I dont know if you can change the old ones for the new ones if you damaged one. I think they are a lot better more like what they should  be like.

John
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #321 on: March 04, 2017, 11:18:44 am »

John,
The stern under-hull detail is looking very good and realistic. The way you have 'sunk' the inlets [like the real vessel] is interesting and I am sure a few folk will follow this approach. I also like the 'profiling' of the bilge keels, again more like the real items. Interested to see you have put the water cooling intakes for either motors or ESCs within the carriage supports on the hull - as I said I was hoping to do in an earlier Post - but mine will be angled at the front [bow] end, more of a 'shovel' profile for pick-up. They do actually continue to the stern edge of the hull. The Keel extension to the water-jet protection bar also looks well made and purposeful!
Lastly, I did not know Andy has changed the water-jet plate, but I shall keep what I have and proceed with that, especially as it is all now fitted for the exit nozzle.
Thanks for Posting these shots, I am sure they are going to be a great help to many.
Keep up the good work.
Kim [C.C.]
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #322 on: March 04, 2017, 04:11:37 pm »

Picture of carriage support on Skegness Shannon.
Bryan.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #323 on: March 05, 2017, 11:34:24 pm »

Thanks MiniMariner for the shot,
Not sure what Mk1 [John] has 'up his sleeve' as he has one of my DVDs of over 1,000 photos and that covers these carriage 'runners', so I'm sure he knows it goes to the stern/transom line. That said, every time I look through the photos there are always little bits of detail that get noticed for the first time, but being there is very useful and one has to be grateful to the way the crew are willing to let us 'get up close and personal'.
C.C.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #324 on: March 05, 2017, 11:57:00 pm »

A couple of ventures into the workshop across the weekend have allowed the Starboard grille to be completed and the stern fixing points to be made and fixed into position.
  • I machined two small aluminium 'L' section lengths.......
  • then tapped a 1.6mm thread to take the small screw and fixed this, filing off the length of threaded protusion....
  • scribed the sections to be removed to allow the grille to do its job, but also be somewhat 'smooth' to the flow of water through it.
  • Removed these sections....
  • then fitted the units together,
  • scribed the screw hole location 'cross hairs' onto the hull [just visible]......
  • then using the Gorilla Original glue put a thin smear on each side of the grille stern location pieces.....
  • wiped a fine amount of water over the internal water-jet facing and placed the grille into place, screwing down with the two bow [forward facing] fixings.
  • After three hours, unscrewed the stern screws and removed [small tug required - the 'fizzing' of the glue had strayed onto the actual grille frame].......
  • then cleaned the glue surplus off and tidied the whole unit up and fixed it into position.
You will see a few of the instruments used during this process. The fine sponge wet and dry pads are a 'god send' - use them a lot, note that I mark them according to their grading. Also notice the 'ladies'' cut fingernail emery board section. This too is a cheap, but invaluable tool, prior to using the pads.
Finally this afternoon, I scribed the shape of the completed grille onto another piece of aluminium angle stock, which I had milled to a flat and am now ready to start the Port grille - hoping it will take a lot less time and I will correct the runners on either side to take the screws more easily.
C.C.
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