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Author Topic: Esc problems. I think!!  (Read 10728 times)

Ginger64

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Esc problems. I think!!
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:35:08 PM »

Hi,just fitted a new pair of esc to my boat,at the same time replaced my two motors. These are Johnson 650 boat runs on 6volt 4amp battery. One of. Now the problem is this,when the boat is used  slow speed no problems. When I increase speed to max the boat switches off!! And that leaves me the problem of retrieving it ha ha. Once it's back in hand if I switch it off and switch it on it's working fine again. I'm not sure if the 15amp marine esc,s are cutting out under load. Or could it be another problem.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 09:36:38 PM »

15A is a bit low for 650s I think
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Capt Podge

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 09:42:28 PM »

I had the same problem with a Club 500 I used to run (although that was a single motor, single ESC). Changed to a Viper Marine 20amp ESC and that resolved the issue.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Ray.
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jarvo

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 10:47:13 PM »

Could be the battery, at slow speed it can cope with the motors, as you throttle up it may not provide enough power to the BEC and reciever so causing the shut down as loss of signal


Mark
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 06:50:47 AM »

Pretty sure it's not the battery,the confusing thing is having two esc fitted. The ones I've used are mtronics marine 15amp. Can get boat to nearly full speed then it shuts off. Possible got a safty feature on esc to stop it overheating,or something like that. On dry land I can rev boat to max on forward and reverse No problems.  Now when boat is in the water full speed shuts it down. When I turn it off and back on again it works fine.  {:-{







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jarvo

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 08:05:35 AM »

That points to the power supply, when the motors are loaded up in the water they may be taking enough power to drop the reciever supply below its cutoff, causing the shut down, you need to put a watt meter in the boat this will tell you what is going on.


Just a thought, have you disconected one of the red leads to the reciever from the ESC's?? if not this could be the problem


Mark
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 08:58:10 AM »

6V 4AH battery indicates a SLA.  Great for long gentle runs, but will not stand much abuse.  Lead acid batteries will deliver a huge current (else your car would never start) but cannot do it for more than a few seconds without the voltage dropping, whatever their state of charge. 
NiMH or LiPo can sustain a heavy continuous current drain without the early voltage drop.
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 05:09:27 PM »

Thanks for replays again people,boat has two esc. Both are plugged in receiver so no probs there. The esc,s have a two second setting window to set max throttle and max reverse throttle. Even when I try to set them they still remain in the same place if u understand. Personally I think the motors on max revs are tripping out a possible safty device on the esc,s which cuts the boat out.
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 05:11:32 PM »

I run the boat on two types of battery. Lead acid and ultra max lifepo4 lithium  battery.
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radiojoe

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 05:30:13 PM »

As Mark said have you removed a red wire from one of the ESC's Rx plug
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 05:39:35 PM »

Yes have cut the red wire from one esc. Just really copied what was already fitted in boat. But up graded the esc,s to new ones. Had lost reverse on one motor that's why I replaced the esc,s. That has fixed the reverse problem. But it now cuts out. Never has before.
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jarvo

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 08:32:58 PM »

Hi Ginger, still think its down to the battery, try disconnecting one motor, if it stops happening BINGO!  possible that the new ESC's are more free flowing of the juice
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 08:29:41 AM »

Hi Ginger, still think its down to the battery, try disconnecting one motor, if it stops happening BINGO!  possible that the new ESC's are more free flowing of the juice
.........and looking at the OP, the new motors might not be as identical to the originals as thought.
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Netleyned

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 08:36:54 AM »

Could they be a couple of those dodgy current hungry johnsons
that were being touted on a certain auction site?


Ned
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inertia

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 09:32:51 AM »

Could they be a couple of those dodgy current hungry johnsons
that were being touted on a certain auction site?
Ned

For those who didn't see the old posting about these motors on the main Mayhem site, here it is:

Quote

These are pictures of the rogue 550 fan-cooled motors which have caused several members some grief over the last year. They are available on E-Bay as well as at shows and from certain retailers. The legend on the can says simply “Johnson”; there is no further ID except the numbers around the flux rings (which mean nothing to me). These are three-pole motors with an internal plastic cooling fan which can be seen through the slots in the case just in front of the brushes. The backplate is a dark grey metal casting as opposed to the usual 540-style white plastic moulding or silver-coloured steel pressing. The case is substantially longer than a stock 540 – some 65mm from end to end, and the motors have two steel flux rings pressed around the forward half of the case.
 
 We have found that the motors are not suitable for “normal” scale models if run at anything over 6 volts. For example, one member has two of these things fitted into a Graemsay ferry and has discovered that he has “low speed handling difficulties running from 12 volts” – probably the understatement of 2006. Another member reports that the stalling current is astronomical and I can personally vouch for the high current consumption, even at relatively low speed on 7.2 volts. They also get very hot very quickly and should be water-cooled for all installations.
 
 In short I wouldn’t recommend anyone to buy one of these unless they are very familiar with all aspects of operating high-speed DC motors. Indeed, the only reason I have one to photograph is that it was given to me. Personally I wouldn’t install it in anything but a wheelie bin………

But what do I know!


The motors have since appeared in several different guises (600, 650 etc) but they are essentially the same i.e. designed to be run through a gearbox.
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2016, 04:51:01 PM »

Do you think this may be one of those motors!
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Netleyned

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2016, 05:10:03 PM »

Batch no is the same :embarrassed: 
We're you offered a 'Special Price'?



Ned
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2016, 05:32:02 PM »

Can't think what I paid but not too cheap. Last 3 digits of bottom number is different.
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Netleyned

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2016, 05:37:28 PM »

Could be a serial number.
Yours has the alloy casting
at the rear instead of the white
plastic.
Is there a white plastic fan to be seen
through slots?


Ned
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2016, 05:39:35 PM »

Can't see. Fitted in boat now. Gutted.  >:-o
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2016, 05:54:10 PM »

The old motors I used were exactly the same. In looks.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2016, 06:00:20 PM »

No need to be gutted, these motors are fine if treated just right :-) .. Firstly for direct drive you will need 20amp Vipers not 15s ( past experience with two single shaft 37" Perkasas. One had a 15 amp Viper, one had a 20 amp Viper, both had these Johnson motors on direct drive, 35mm 2 blade 'S' props and 7.2v 3600 mAh NiMhs. The 15 amp equipped model was just that bit slower until we swapped over speed controls. Both achieved run times of about 14 minutes, not bad for pre-brushless times. Both models got up on the plane..both models were the glass fibre variants so slightly lighter than the wooden ones.).
Second, as stated above, 6v is just that bit low for a supply voltage. Under full load the speed controls are tripping out as your available voltage is dropping below about the 5v mark. That or your Rx is dropping out and loosing bind temporarily ( had that last week with a little RNLI Lifeboat, those fifty quid things. I stuck two ex-coaxial heli motors in it for a set up on 4.8v..NOT the best idea. Ran like a mad thing and kept dropping out and re-binding after a few seconds, too many amps by a long way!  Now happily equipped with a pair of MFA 280/1 motors, sweet as a nut..).
These motors have had a bad press, not least because of some of the less scrupulous people suggesting their suitability for 6v to 12v operation, my advice, don't exceed 7.2v on direct drive, after that slap them on some sort of reduction drive gearbox. I have run them up to 14.4v on Robbe 3.3:1 reduction drives with 42.5mm 2 blade props, pulling about 6.5 amps in the water. i am also using them on 5.5:1 reduction boxes in a 68" landing craft that I am slowly building, that is running on a pair of 6v 10amp gel batteries, one per motor.
lots of motors can cause problems. Only a few weeks ago, at a model show, I saw a scale 'grey funnel line' battleship with four Graupner 600 12v motors, a bit extreme for a five foot boat I thought. However the local expert had recommended them as he had used the same set up in his much faster boat and all was well.."anyway.." said he, "you can always just not use all your throttle.."
Good advice..better advice would be to put the right motors in, but I digress..to quote a great man...

Suit yourself %)
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2016, 06:08:49 PM »

Thanks for reply unbuiltnautilus. But after just fitting new 15 amp esc,s think I may have to fix throttle levers so I can't max it out. Or maybe I could put a feed from another battery to my receiver so it stays powered. Would that work?
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2016, 06:14:13 PM »

You could feed a separate 4.8v Rx pack into your receiver which would stop any brown outs caused by low voltage supplies to said receiver. You would have to remove the red wires from both of your Vipers instead of just one.
You could change over to 7.2v packs for main drive, which would give you a little more leeway on your voltage supplies.
If the problem is caused by too high a current drain from the motors, the only real option is smaller or shallower pitch props.
What type of model is it and what size props are you using at present?
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Ginger64

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Re: Esc problems. I think!!
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2016, 07:56:09 PM »

Have un pluged one motor and it still trips out on the other motor alone. Props are 30mm three blade brass. Boat is 450 mm x 300 approx.
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