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Author Topic: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit  (Read 25889 times)

Edmund

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HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« on: March 05, 2016, 07:10:10 PM »

I've been wanting to build a warship for some time.  Usually I'm scratch building my model ships but the main problem with model warships is that there are some very good kits and semi kits out there, especially of the well-known ones.  So why re-invent something?

Which comes round to the point - I acquired a slightly started semi-kit of HMS Intrepid not so long ago and have just begun to build.

It was a bit of a mess.  Holes drilled for shafts, bulkheads ill fitted.  I scrapped the lot and returned to the basic hull which was otherwise in good condition.

Why Intrepid?  Well it's a big model and there is all sorts of potential for it to do things!  Landing craft in the stern, helicopters on the decks, opportunities to have all sorts of scenes going on on the decks, vehicles as well.  And then as I have seen elsewhere motorise and radio-control those landing craft and have the dock flooding as well and the stern door dropping down.  Ambition knows no bounds with modern electronics we could light the ship and have the davits working as well.  And also I was given the fantastic privilege many years ago to spend a couple of weeks on her at sea.

So a small start of this ambitious project has been made.  Sitek shafts and props fitted, a water-tight bulkhead fitted across the hull and the beginnings of the dock.  The plywood has been waterproofed and aim is a pump that fills the bilge and sides of the hull at the stern with about 2 litres of water - that is I work out 2000 scale tons of water.  Intrepid used I believe just over 4000, but this dock is shorter than the original and if one floats at a slightly lower water line and has a slightly bows up configuration I think this will work.

So I've never built  submarine, but maybe this will be the one! 

So hoping for loads of advice from folks out there.  I've built a train ferry with a raising bow visor before but nothing quite this complicated....

ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 11:38:19 PM »

Given the non scale effect of water on a scale hull, is 2litres enough to do the job allowing you to float craft in and out? I am just thinking now before you get too far into the project and are left half in half out. I think that if it works like you hope, it will be a marvellous spectacle, even better than those rescue ships with separate RIBs you see sometimes.

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Capt Podge

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2016, 11:39:08 PM »

Wishing you luck on this one Edmund - we know you have the skills and patience, so we'll just sit quietly in the background and monitor your progress. :-))

Regards,

Ray.
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2016, 08:25:50 PM »

The wife is out, and so the domestically installed test tank has been put to good use.  Surprisingly Intrepid fits!  The Edwardians made baths properly!

13kg of lead sheet and lead acid battery brings her down to her water line.  Something is right because the original ship weighed in at almost 12,500 tons.  Every kilogram at this scale works out as 1000 tons.  She is a big old lady.

So the test - flood the dock and see if you could drive a landing craft in and out.  Well the dock walls are not installed yet, so no control.  A bit alarming - Titanic in the bath.  It floods and keeps on going - so clearly the 2 litres is going to the job.  The depth of water will be able to be controlled by flooding the chamber to the correct amount and retaining some buoyancy.  At the moment without the dock walls it just keeps on going.  Of course the dock provides some of the flooding weight as well.  Flooded it must take in another in another 2kg of water.  It is certainly satisfying to know that there plenty of ballast space in the flooding chamber.   

So now to get on with the plans for the mechanics - motors, servos, pumps etc.  This is the really complicated bit.  How to effectively and easily control all the different functions of this complex model.  Quite apart from twin props and rudder, we need to be able to anchor, flood the dock, lower the stern door, and then control two landing craft to motor in and out under their own remote control.  All this as well as the usual lighting and navigation lights.  Lowering the davit held landing craft would be nice as well, but all surely possible in such a large hull. 

But all ideas and prior experience would be really welcome from forum members - I look forward to hearing from folks who've tried some of these things before as well or those who've just thought some of these problems through!!!

ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 08:55:23 PM »

Very dynamic. I look forward to seeing the methods you use and the dock working.

 :-))
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Norseman

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 09:02:52 PM »

It looks a very interesting build Edmund so I'll tag along quietly  :}

Dave
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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016, 10:11:44 PM »

I do know of one that flooded the rear dock by moving ballast.
A great chunk of lead on a long lead screw turned by a geared motor.
It worked well on flooding but cant remember how to completely drain the dock.
Possibly a slight camber on the dock floor.


Bob
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 10:46:10 PM »

I do know of one that flooded the rear dock by moving ballast.
A great chunk of lead on a long lead screw turned by a geared motor.
It worked well on flooding but cant remember how to completely drain the dock.
Possibly a slight camber on the dock floor.


Bob
There is a good six inches between prop shafts and a fair height under the dock floor and this would be a system that would work.  I was wondering about it.  As for the dock, it will need a drain in the floor.  The rear gate was held in a closed position while the dock was flooded and emptied, I remember from the time when as a teenager I was able to spend time on her and had the run of her during various exercises.  There is a drain from port to starboard across the dock floor about half way along the dock with a slight slope into it fore and aft.  I shall make it free draining/flooding to the outside through the hull. The stern door won't be water tight but you couldn't rely on that to empty the dock.

deadbeat

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2016, 11:49:18 AM »

The TV series Supermodels did a 1/48 HMS Fearless with a floodable dock. If you can find that series somewhere, try Youtube, it may help you, even to the mechanism for raising and lowering the dock gate.
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 01:09:24 PM »

The TV series Supermodels did a 1/48 HMS Fearless with a floodable dock. If you can find that series somewhere, try Youtube, it may help you, even to the mechanism for raising and lowering the dock gate.

Thank you for that - I shall look it out - I like my models big but that is quite ridiculous!  Twice the size makes eight times the weight.  My 13kg would become near enough 100kg.  The landing craft would be easier to build though!  They are quite a feat of miniature modelling - to get to work with RC at least.

Dave Cook

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 06:46:32 PM »

Hi Edmund , I am looking at getting a hull myself and i was thinking of pumping water in to lower the
 well deck but  from what i have heard the ballest railway is a better way to do it on scale models , i have also draw a nice way of lowering and raising the rear dock door . Good luck with your build.

Best Regards Dave ok2



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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 07:01:14 PM »

Hi Dave,

With the bulkhead in place I am sort of committed to the water ballast approach, but should it not work then I could revert to the ballast railway.  My intention with this model is to work the mechanics out first before getting on to superstructure and detailing, so rebuilding is perfectly possible because one really has to be sure that it's going to work.

I'd be interested in your drawing for the stern door mechanics because that really is my next bit.  Below is the door I've made and incorporated with it is a few ounces of lead so it can't float.  Needs cleaning up a bit.  So my thoughts so far had been a gravity system.

So if you can post your drawing I'd be really interested...

maggie m

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2016, 07:49:29 PM »

Hi Edmund , have a look at MODELWARSHIPS UK ,web site lots of builds of intrepid and fearless, these are the Gents who run Glasgow model warship weekend , hope this helps,
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 11:03:54 AM »

Hi Edmund , have a look at MODELWARSHIPS UK ,web site lots of builds of intrepid and fearless, these are the Gents who run Glasgow model warship weekend , hope this helps,

I know there's lots of information on their website - it looks as though it might be really interesting.  Problem is I have tried to join for the last four years on and off and get no response - just one email in that time saying an activation email will be sent at some stage - I've been waiting a long time!!

Anyone know a way of becoming a member?  Message me privately - don't make it a forum thing - thanks!

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2016, 11:33:08 AM »

PM sent
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deadbeat

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 12:49:13 PM »

I think the 1/48 version ended up at about 11 ft long and was ballasted at the water's edge using bags of shingle. Needless to say they needed a trailer.

For flooding and draining the dock they used a cordless screwdriver switched by radio to drive one of those pumps you can buy to stick on the end of an electric drill. Most plumbing was 15mm copper pipe.

They approached propulsion in a novel way in that they used flexible drive shafts of the type you can get for drills instead of a straight propshaft.

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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2016, 03:14:26 PM »

Link to youtube of the episodes about the building of the 48th scale Fearless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdG6yUea7fM

I notice that the 3rd episode has details of the pumps and rear door etc.

It is a huge build - and a huge model.  I think 96th scale is big enough for me!

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2016, 06:30:47 PM »

Hi Edmond , I forgot to say i have also heard the model on TV would not go down with water so they faked it .And if you watch the programme it looks about right.

Dave
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2016, 09:16:08 PM »

In the tiller flat, tiller wires and control wires fitted.  Now this is going to be the hidden bit, as the tiller flat is going to have to be waterproofed and sealed.  In case it has to be opened the dock floor will be fitted with silicon sealer  and it  will be able to be levered off if necessary.  Two control wires run through aluminium tubes through to the main hold through the water ballast tank to the rudder servo.

The two vertical pillars are the drain pipes for the dock which is to be filled and emptied through the side to side gulley drain.  You only see the forward part of the gulley attached to the dock floor, and its only been pushed into position at the moment - which explains the gaps visible. 

The waterproof separation between dock and ballast tanks is important, and I will need to see that once built the ballast tanks hold at least 2 litres of water.  All the curves of the stern of the hull make calculations of volume rather difficult.  Another bath test at that part of the build.  Then there will be an overflow hole for the ballast tanks into the dock, just in case there is some sort of failure of the ballast tank water pump that mean that it doesn't stop!  Ballast water is straight from the pond!

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2016, 07:53:53 AM »

If I was fitting out the steering compartment I would use clevis clips on to the tiller arm and certainly beef up the connection between tillers.


Bob
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John W E

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2016, 08:18:52 AM »

Do you mean like this wor Bob
 :} :} :} :} :} :-))


john
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2016, 08:42:51 AM »

Heavy duty stuff!  I was going for flexibility and the spring wire approach has served me well in the past.  But I think you're right Bob, so I'll think it through again.

Issue on Intrepid is the very small size of the tiller flat and the need for the control rods to pass through the water ballast tanks.  I think I shall turn the tiller arms upside down to lower the holes for the clevis clips and use clevises that can be bolted onto 1mm or so piano wires to retain the flexibility needed to get through to the main hold where the servo will be.  Two push rods to keep the whole system tight.

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2016, 09:48:03 AM »

Hi Edmund
If you are looking for flexibility on a push/push system try the plastic snakes as used in aircraft or Bowden cables. Alternatively use a pull/pull system with plastic coated metal wires as used in fishing traces. You can get adapters to use these with clevises. These closed loop systems are used on quite large models and are very effective, they can even go round corners if you use pulleys.

Jim
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Edmund

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2016, 12:27:47 PM »

Hi Jim,

Thanks for that - never knew they existed - they'll be just the thing!

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Re: HMS Intrepid, 1:96 scale Sirmar semi-kit
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2016, 10:14:51 PM »

A little more work over the weekend.  The dock door has been attached by its hinge to the stern with its control rod that runs through to the main hold to raise and lower it. The movement is light enough for a standard servo to work it.

The flight deck is cut to shape - it will lift off to give access to the motors and to the dock. 

LED lighting is also installed in the dock area. 

Next is the anchor winch.  The chain and windlasses on the deck will be fixed.  The mechanics will all be under the deck.  The chain attached to the anchor moves freely, and the anchor has enough weight to start its progress.  A geared motor will be attached to a large deep cotton reel that holds about 4 metres of chain, more than enough to anchor in our shallow pond.  The motor will be able to slip so that when the anchor reaches the hawse pipe it won't break the chain.
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