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Author Topic: Future of HMS Illustrious  (Read 7164 times)

Colin Bishop

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Future of HMS Illustrious
« on: March 06, 2016, 10:25:03 pm »

Does anyone know if there have been any developments in determining the future of the ex HMS Illustrious?

There was supposed to be a 'competition' to find alternative uses for the vessel but all seems to have gone quiet.

My assumption is that there will 'regrettably' be no viable long term future for the ship and that she will be towed off to Turkey for demolition as were her two sisters.

To be honest it is actually quite difficult to see how the ship could be gainfully employed as her hangar space is relatively small and surrounded by a rabbit warren of cramped internal compartments which would be difficult to put to practical use.

Colin
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Jonty

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 04:52:49 pm »

  No, but I see that INS Viraat (formerly HMS Hermes) has been bought by the state of Andhra Pradesh for the nominal sum of Re1, about a penny. The plan is to convert her to a luxury hotel and casino. Indian gambling law being what it is the ship will have to be moored outside territorial waters.

  India is littered with the foundation stones of unrealised projects, so we can only hope...
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Rob47

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 02:32:06 pm »

As I understand it the Government (call me dave) ordered it to be preserved as a memorial and nothing about turning it into anything else.

According to Navy News ex HMS Hermes is going to become a naval museum not a casino, although have seen that touted in several places
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 04:52:43 pm »

The Government simply indicated that they would like to see the ship preserved. No money is on offer and in fact I would think that they will want somebody to come forward with an offer which exceeds the ship's scrap value so we can expect to see Illustrious being towed off to the scrapyard in the wake of her sister ships in the not too distant future.

Colin
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plastic

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 05:14:46 pm »

Realistically, warships are not good for preservation because their internal design of hundreds of compartments and small corridors makes them unsuitable or expensive for conversion into any other use - and they are big so they are difficult to find a mooring somewhere where they can create a business with enough regular punters to pay the upkeep.

If it could be a new Imperial War Museum annex moored in central London stuffed full of Cold War planes, helicopters, missiles, naval tech, Marines, SAS stuff etc, - it might make sense - You could have major events on the hangar deck - parties, gigs, banquets - it would be a big space for hire in Central London - but as a half-assed hotel or casino moored on the coast - it will never get enough investment.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 09:09:09 pm »

The Americans have made a good go of using USS Intrepid as a museum moored at New york so I could see it working, but as mentioned, if there is no wedge, then it won't happen.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2016, 09:21:01 pm »

Intrepid has a huge hangar space full of exhibits. The hangar in the much smaller Illustrious is actually quite narrow and a lot smaller than you would expect so does not have the same potential as an exhibition or business venue.

Colin

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ballastanksian

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 09:26:26 pm »

Darn:O( And we don't want too many of our exhibits left outside to corrode like the AFV collection did at Aberdeen Proving Ground.
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Brian60

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 09:36:42 am »

It was a story Skynews ran last week. It seems no single body came up with the criteria required by the government (read into that not enough cash!) the ship is now going to be scrapped. A quick search of skynews website for last week should turn up the story on it.

Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 10:12:02 am »

Couldn't find the Skynews report but it seems there was one in the Sun:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7012282/HMS-Illustrious-to-be-sold-for-scrap.html

Colin
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Brian60

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 02:50:15 pm »

I know Hull wanted her to be moored alongside the Oceanic centre The Deep, not only as a tourist attraction but a functioning museum. Of course the several million quid that the local council and charities offered was not enough for the greed of the Exchequer <:( <*<

Rob47

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2016, 05:02:10 pm »

Ah well such is life, I thought when I read the request from Dave (trust me) that IT WAS TO BE SAVED he was being wishful.

The real cost was explained to me by disposal ships. If I may take a bit of space too pass it on.

1/ buy your ship, cheapest part
2/ move you private owned ship from my dockyard.
3/ pay lots of money to tow
4/ more money to find docking space
5/ open to public and watch money roll in, WRONG
6/ make sure access is easy for paying public, this inevitably means lots of cutting and welding and moving of stairways etc
7/ now use existing wiring and get the light working and good to go, again wrong, needs to be modern H&S compliant wiring.
8/ providing all is up to scratch you can now open :)
9/ fast forward 10 years, and actually profit made, then you get notice from MoD saying although private owned it has to be inspected by MoD in dry dock, so towing etc and paying for dry dock and inspection. then home and talk to bank manager

so although warships have been sold for 1 its not all plain sailing (pun intended :)
8/ Pr
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2016, 05:51:48 pm »

Unfortunately Dave says lots of things he knows very little about. Yes, he did say the intention was to save HMS Illustrious for the nation but he had no conception of the realities this would involve.

Colin
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NFMike

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2016, 06:07:23 pm »

Unfortunately Dave says lots of things he knows very little about. Yes, he did say the intention was to save HMS Illustrious for the nation but he had no conception of the realities this would involve.

Colin

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2016, 07:19:54 pm »

It is reported in the latest issue of Ships Monthly that Illustrious is to be sold for 'recycling' as no viable offers have been made for preserving the ship. The door is still open for proposals to save her but it is not expected that there will be any.

Colin
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Tugtower

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2016, 11:51:40 am »

The last i heard the ship was up for viewing last month to prospected buyers.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sale-of-the-former-hms-illustrious-aircraft-carrier


other then that its all speculation what will happen next.


Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2016, 11:54:19 am »

As your link states, the viewing is for recycling (scrapping) and not preserving although late offers for preservation will be considered if considered to be viable (and presumably the sale price is right).

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2016, 09:37:28 pm »

I remember some years ago, Liverpool wanted the old RMAS St Margarets, to preserve as she was built in Berkinhead. The MoD said no, they had to put in a competitive bid with the scrappers for her, as that was the rules, she went to Italy for razor blades and she was a small very interesting steam recip vessel.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2016, 09:52:17 pm »

Yes, I think that in the case of Illustrious:

1. David Cameron said she would be preserved for the nation when she was decommissioned (As usual without thinking through the practicalities - he seems to make a habit of it)
2. It was confirmed that no public money was available towards preservation.
3. Proposals were invited from any interested parties to ensure the preservation of the ship (but it would appear that the initial price had to be higher than the estimated scrap value)
4. A number of proposals were received/explored and all found not to be viable.
5. Tenders are now invited for scrapping the ship with the proviso that if there are any late preservation offers these will be considered. (but they don't believe there is a cat in hell's chance of that happening)

Personally I don't believe that the MoD ever had any intention other than scrapping the ship. Although, to be fair, it is difficult to see how she could have become a commercially viable proposition. The game plan has been to let public interest die down, which it has, and then quietly scrap the ship like her sisters.

Colin
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adamD98

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2016, 10:43:06 am »

I think your 'game plan' theory is pretty much on the money Colin. It's an absolutely gutting thing to see happening, but there was never really going to be any other outcome.


 It is a shame we can't take on some of the mentality of the USA for preserving maritime history such as this, but we could toss that debate till the end of time probably.
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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2016, 12:02:17 pm »

That and never believe a word Cameron says - old school politician say one thing then do another - and a hypocrite, extoll the virtues of a genuine politician (rip J Cox) and cannot be seen to match up to those values mentioned.

Sorry of topic - but our heritage and achievements are eroded by these bottom feed scum, whilst lining their own pockets and helping their buddies, whilst they interfere with real progress and allow projects to over run or cost more due to unrealistic changes, ships like this are an historic reference, member of class, ideally moored with Victory and open to the public, school trips, used for special holiday stays like HMS Bristol etc, close to a dry dock so can be inspected regularily, scrap - huh no way.

Rant over
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2016, 12:20:30 pm »

I have been aboard Illustrious two or three times and I think it would be very difficult to find a viable use for the ship. It is a rabbit warren of small compartments inside and even the hangar isn't all that big really (which is why they kept HMS Ocean instead). It would be very expensive, if not impossible to generally open up the ship for public access and other activities while the ongoing maintenance costs for such a large vessel would be horrendous.

Moreover, although the ship gave long and honourable service, she was never historically famous like the Victory, Warrior or Mary Rose so she does not have a very high public profile outside naval circles. The figures simply do not add up. Cameron's comments were probably partly prompted by a guilty conscience after the furore when Ark Royal was taken out of service immediately after a 12m refit.

People cite the USA as being better in preserving their historic ships and this is true to a large extent, but many of them are dependent upon volunteer time by former crewmates who are now becoming old and dying off with the result that their financial situation has become precarious.

Colin
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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2016, 01:35:41 pm »

Ark Royal was taken out of service immediately after a 12m refit.
What a waste of tax payers money!!!!!
These people run your country!!!
We have the same type of dead heads running Australia!!!!
Also they require a pay rise on making the country worse!!!
If they where pay on performance, they would paying the country BACK!!!!
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Tugtower

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2016, 12:42:17 am »

Vote out in 3 days time and maybe these Isues will be a thing of the past ( or just more money to waste in bigger fat cat pay rises) either way it's always a minority that make the bad choices, jut a shame their the ones in 'blinking!' charge {-) {-)

Colin Bishop

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Re: Future of HMS Illustrious
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2016, 06:44:27 am »

It is Michael Gove who is on record as wanting to spend millions of pounds on building a new Royal Yacht not so many years ago so I think you are whistling in the dark there....

Colin
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