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Author Topic: HMS Bronington sinks  (Read 7118 times)

Liverbudgie

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2016, 05:32:17 pm »

The link ain't much use unless you are a registered user.
Bronny has been neglected for long enough.
Something like this was inevitable.


Ned

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Liverbudgie

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 05:56:59 pm »

The link ain't much use unless you are a registered user.
Bronny has been neglected for long enough.
Something like this was inevitable.


Ned

Quite, so sign up if you have any interest in maritime affairs, shipping movements, marine photography etc.

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 11:27:13 pm »

It's a wonder she lasted this long and didn't sink in the mid 1980's at Fleetwood. I was on holiday at the time visiting an old aunt who lived in the town.

She was on a courtesy visit to the town around mid summer time and was moored up against the IOM Steamer berth, just north of the Ro Ro Terminal, because the Captain had made a co*k up of sailing into the Wyre Dock earlier in the day and run aground on the Tiger's Tail.

Once re floated she had moored up against the vacant berth. However she had tied up with an easterly onshore breeze that was getting up, and by around 19.30 hours the breeze was up to around a force 5.

Due in at 20.30 hours was the 14000grt Ro Ro Ship Tipperary which would normally swing around on her bow thrusters and moor stern on to the link span, and that night was no different.

I was walking down to a local pub as she came in and started swinging round. Unfortunately the stiff breeze caught her beam on and the thrusters could not hold her off the berths trapping the HMS Bronnington between her and the IOM berth. There was nothing that could be done without a tug to drag the Tipperary off the unfortunate wooden Minesweeper, and her hull and deck were creaking audibly above the noise of the Tipperary's engines and thrusters.

As the tide was now in the small tug from Fleetwood was called but to no avail, and a much larger tug was called from Heysham around the bay, and although it took an hour for her to get around the coast she pulled the Tipperary off the Bronninton and she escaped to be moored just inside the river mouth opposite the lifeboat station.

The crew which had gone ashore were hastily recalled and she set sail.

However she and her captain were not out of the woods yet, and although her hull and deck had withstood the continual pounding from the larger ship trapping her, for nearly two hours, two of the crew had been naughty, and just as we were extracting ourselves from the pub around 23.30 the maroons for the lifeboat to be launched, were sounded,and so a crowd stood around on the promenade to watch her motor out. we could see in the gloom and lights that she had stopped as she went past the Bronnington out in the bay just west of the light house out at the entrance to the river.

It transpired that the two naughty crew men had taken two well known ladies of the night from Fleetwood on board as stow a ways and all four had been discovered having a little fun and frolics down in their quarters.

At his court marshal, the captain said in a statement that he never wanted to see Fleetwood again if given the choice.

The two ladies drank and dined out on the story in the local drinking houses for a long while, so I was told later.

Jim.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 12:37:26 am »

So are you saying that the future King of England is partly responsible here as at one stage Prince Charles was her Captain or Commanding Officer {-) ............. Derek


'Following a lieutenant's [Prince Charles] course at the Royal Naval College, Greenwich, The Prince was given command of his own ship, the minehunter HMS Bronington, for the final ten months of his active service in the Royal Navy ending on 15th December 1976'.
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Arrow5

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2016, 09:09:22 am »

There is no "King of England" yet.  Wait until Scotland leaves the United Kingdom then perhaps England will (oops Will geddit ?) have a king.   Scotland will be a republic without all that cr... em  pomp and ceremony confined to the tourist industry alongside Nessie and other myths  >>:-(
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gingyer

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2016, 11:09:28 am »

There is no "King of England" yet.  Wait until Scotland leaves the United Kingdom then perhaps England will (oops Will geddit ?) have a king.   Scotland will be a republic without all that cr... em  pomp and ceremony confined to the tourist industry alongside Nessie and other myths  >>:-(

Can you not educate without the spiteful political rubbish??

Derek, it's not the King of England but the King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and territories.  :-)) :-))
He needs to get a vote appointing him to head of the commonwealth  %)

I got this from him mum, the top shows the correct title  O0  O0


Anyway back to the topic it's a disgrace for anybody to leave a ship to rot in this way but you don't expect anything else from peel ports >>:-(
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BFSMP

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2016, 01:38:20 pm »

So are you saying that the future King of England is partly responsible here as at one stage Prince Charles was her Captain or Commanding Officer {-) ............. Derek


'Following a lieutenant's [Prince Charles] course at the Royal Naval College, Greenwich, The Prince was given command of his own ship, the minehunter HMS Bronington, for the final ten months of his active service in the Royal Navy ending on 15th December 1976'.


ahhh, he'd long since finished his commission when that misadventure happened Derek.

That would have been an embarrassment,

Jim.
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TailUK

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 01:53:40 pm »



Anyway back to the topic it's a disgrace for anybody to leave a ship to rot in this way but you don't expect anything else from peel ports >>:-(

I whole heartedly agree.  The neglect seem to be calculated with a view to deny anyone a chance to preserve the ship.  HMS Plymouth went the same way!  The Ton Class was the last of our "Wooden Walls" the last Royal Navy class to be built in wood and it's a crying shame that this ship has not been preserved with honour. 
What else can be expected from our politicians, millions for unmade beds and graffiti and not a penny for the heritage of out great naval past!
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adamD98

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 02:26:00 pm »

Gone the same way as HMS Kellington did here in Teesside. The Special K was rumoured to have been purposely damaged so that Stockton Council could reap the benefits. I'm not saying that this was confirmed, but I'm not denying it was confirmed either (by someone in authority). Could the same thing have 'accidentally' happened to the Bron?


 I was fortunate enough to have been on both of these Tons (not in a serving capacity) and I did revisit the Kellington not long before the Sea Cadets were removed from her, at which point I was a serving RN stoker.
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imsinking

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2016, 02:40:40 pm »

Gone the same way as HMS Kellington did here in Teesside. The Special K was rumoured to have been purposely damaged so that Stockton Council could reap the benefits. I'm not saying that this was confirmed, but I'm not denying it was confirmed either (by someone in authority). Could the same thing have 'accidentally' happened to the Bron?


 I was fortunate enough to have been on both of these Tons (not in a serving capacity) and I did revisit the Kellington not long before the Sea Cadets were removed from her, at which point I was a serving RN stoker.


We've got suspicion's about Bronington's treatment too , the cadet's meet just up the dock from the Bronington , & they were forever closing deck hatches that kept being opened , over time developed a list  and . . . . .
Bill
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2016, 02:43:58 pm »

This is a topic that my Dad and I often talk about in the pub. The problem is our nations ability to preserve our history (or lack of it). Big machines like warships are all too often disposed off when they hold such importance to those who know it. A good example is HMS Warspite, the QE class battleship, which was world famous, had the most battle honours of any warship, flag ship to many admirals, survivor of Jutland, the list goes on. The admiralty disposed of her without a second thought despite all the historical significance behind her, however, I believe the same thing would have happened to the even more famous Hood if she hadn't been sunk in 1941! Considering as a country we have the most maritime history of all time we are very poor at preserving it. <:(
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Nick B

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imsinking

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2016, 03:00:13 pm »

AND don't forget H M S VANGUARD the last battleship , don't think she fired a shot in anger .
Bill
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BFSMP

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2016, 03:19:38 pm »

I think one has to look at this situation logically though before things are shrouded with nostalgia.

A small lifeboat such as the William Riley of Leamington and Birmingham or the H F Bailey of my hometown Cromer,both wooden lifeboats cost in excess of 100,000.00p each to restore to what they are now and they are only 40 odd feet long.

What would it cost to restore a wooden ship three times the length of a lifeboat, and who would do such a task.

No good looking towards the government of the day who ever, because they have much greater and more deserving recipients of tax payers money, and who has the talents and skills these days. One only has to look at what the present government is wanting to cut funding on in last weeks budget.

There would be riots on the streets if any government announced: Oh yes we are cutting disabled benefits but restoring an old long forgotten wooden warship.

What would be the point. If you liked the class of ship, build a model of one and remember it that way, at greatly reduced expense.

Jim.
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Netleyned

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 03:37:15 pm »

Thought you were all for preserving vessels.
Selling bits and pieces on here to rebuild the ALR.
Quote 'If you like the class of ship, build a model of
one and remember her that way at greatly reduced
expense'


Pot and Kettle methinks.


Ned
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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2016, 03:46:14 pm »

I think one has to look at this situation logically though before things are shrouded with nostalgia.

A small lifeboat such as the William Riley of Leamington and Birmingham or the H F Bailey of my hometown Cromer,both wooden lifeboats cost in excess of 100,000.00p each to restore to what they are now and they are only 40 odd feet long.

What would it cost to restore a wooden ship three times the length of a lifeboat, and who would do such a task.

No good looking towards the government of the day who ever, because they have much greater and more deserving recipients of tax payers money, and who has the talents and skills these days. One only has to look at what the present government is wanting to cut funding on in last weeks budget.

There would be riots on the streets if any government announced: Oh yes we are cutting disabled benefits but restoring an old long forgotten wooden warship.

What would be the point. If you liked the class of ship, build a model of one and remember it that way, at greatly reduced expense.

Jim.


Entirely agree with you Jim, but we didn't even save one of our dreadnoughts which would have made sense. As a country we are too ready to destroy our achievements for the price of cut backs and I know that every ship can't be saved, we'd run out of room for them, but one or two larger ships could have been saved and been opened up like Belfast or the vessels at Chatham or Portsmouth. The survival of HMS Warrior and SS Great Britian was more by luck than by intention. I for one would have loved to board the old Warspite but to board a vintage WW1 dreadnought you have to travel to the USA to see the USS Texas.
The same happened to aircraft too, there are no Whitleys, Hampdens, DH Hornets, or Westland Whirlwind fighters left and restorers are trying their best to find pieces to build just one of each. Governments and ministries are very short sighted at times, the tourist attraction alone could have saved some.
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Nick B

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BFSMP

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2016, 03:54:49 pm »

Pot and Kettle methinks.
Ned

Not really Ned, and yes I am amongst those who would like to see some boats/ships preserved. But I would never ever expect a government to spend my taxes or anyone else's taxes on a preservation that would be for the few to look at, nor to continually maintain it at vast expense to the public, year on year off.

As I get old and find friends and acquaintances unable to be given treatments for life shortening illnesses, the last thing I want my government to do is spend money on pointless projects.

Had people been interested in saving this ship they would have done so already and by her sad sinking it shows that there is just not the interest from other than sad old far** like us that really give a hoot.

Sorry, but that is a fact of life, and although lifeboats are an exceptional case, they are about the only historic boat that is shown any interest by both the public and those groups solely dedicated to keeping their history and tradition preserved for future generations.

Jim.
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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2016, 04:13:00 pm »

I don't expect the Government to put money into heritage schemes
If enough like minded people wish to get together and raise the cash
to realise their dreams I applaud them.
Where would our heritage railways be without the hundreds nay thousands
of volunteers that turn out every day to run them.
There will always be someone with a pet project that
needs funding.


Ned
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2016, 04:37:47 pm »

Ships are not like railways though. Railways attract a lot more public interest for a start, people like travelling on steam trains and will do so more than once. The volunteers get to play railways with real trains which is great fun.

With ships, first you have to raise the money to restore something that is probably in desperate need of attention (nothing deteriorates faster than a neglected ship), then you have to have a business plan which brings in considerable sums to keep it maintained and pay for the inevitably expensive parking place. Most preserved ships do not go to sea so volunteers will spend most of their time on maintenance or on showing people around etc. Not as much fun as playing stationmasters, guards and even drivers on a railway. If they do go to sea then keeping a vessel in a safe seaworthy condition for passenger trips entails yet more substantial expense.

On the other side of the coin the public are only likely to visit once and if they do a second time it could be years ahead. So once all the people who live within say a 90 minute drive have seen it, visitor numbers fall off a cliff and you are dependent on low numbers of tourists from abroad or out of the immediate area. The figures hardly ever stack up unless you have an exhibit of national significance in a prime location. Even Portsmouth Dockyard with its probably unsurpassed collection of ships and other attractions has to work really hard to make ends meet with special events throughout the year such as its Victorian Christmas etc.

America has certainly done rather better than the UK in preserving battleships but a lot of them are now in financial trouble as they have been dependent on volunteers who served on them in WW2 and these are now all dropping off the perch as is the generation who would  find them most interesting to visit. Public money is literally needed to help keep them afloat. Youngsters these days don't really identify with battleships much.

That it is why it is so regrettable that so many museums have turned their backs on model exhibits as they are often the only way of depicting famous vessels economically in a manner that pictures and photos simply cannot match.

Colin

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TailUK

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2016, 06:27:48 pm »

I understand what Jim means and to some extent agree.  However as has been seen recently in Syria and Iraq historical artefacts and sites are all to easily lost and in the case of ships like Bronington when they are gone they are gone for good.  Taxpayers are smart, they know that a government has to spend it's resources on running and defending the country and that the resources are not endless but I know most British taxpayers (myself included) would like to see some of our taxes spent on preserving the rich historical heritage of Britain.
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BarryM

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2016, 07:20:18 pm »

Where do you draw the line on which ship is worth keeping and which can go to razor blades - or matchsticks? Competing interests are guaranteed to ensure that consensus will never be reached. My own experience tells me that while there are always people ready to demand in the strongest terms the preservation of X, Y or Z as an irreplaceable part of our heritage ( a rather vague term in itself), the numbers who will actually put their hands in their pockets are pitifully few. We get the results we deserve.

Barry M
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2016, 07:41:47 pm »

Quite right Barry, the vessel to be saved needs to have a really strong 'brand' image such as the RY Britannia or HMS Victory. Also, for modern ships you need a good business plan in place BEFORE the ship goes out of service so that it is handed over in a decent condition. Bronnington simply doesn't cut the mustard, the population at large have not heard of her and would be uninterested if they had.

Another problem with warships is they they are honeycombed with small compartments and narrow accessways which severely limits the use to which they can be put. Ships designed to carry passengers are a much better bet as working preserved vessels and can also be used for moneymaking corporate and social events such as weddings etc. For example, one of the Mersey ferries would probably make a viable excursion vessel and floating restaurant with the right business plan. You can't use a small warship for such purposes as they don't have the built in public spaces.

Colin
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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2016, 07:51:32 pm »

Now I know this will not go down well , But other than those with an interest in Ships, Boats, Vessels call them what you may On a whole does anyone really care ?.  I think Colin sums it up pretty well about trains.

It is a shame but unless a group gets together as they did with the Daniel Adamson then she is a lost cause.

Starspider

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Re: HMS Bronington sinks
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2016, 10:51:18 pm »

On a lighter note, did not a certain royal prince run Bronington aground when he was Officer commanding.
colin
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