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Author Topic: Literature about the Battle of Jutland  (Read 7214 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2016, 09:43:18 pm »

 
Another program about Jutland on BBC 2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07dps1x
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Tiny69

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2016, 07:29:31 am »

I have received some photo's of the Iron Duke on display at the Deutsches Marinemuseum in Wilhelmshaven from Nick Jellicoe. She will be part of the Skagerrak. Battle without winners - Jutland exhibition which opened at 14:30 yesterday afternoon (29th May.)

Colin Bishop

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2016, 09:58:47 am »

Last night's programme on Jutland was better than the earlier one although the 'experiment' with flooding the model of a hull of HMS Queen Mary was rather pointless and a waste of time, also misleading as to what constituted 'subdivision' in a warship hull - it isn't just transverse bulkheads. Otherwise what was presented was fairly accurate although a lot was left out.

Again nothing new about the battle emerged but the simulation of a hit in the gunhouse igniting ready use cordite which then spread to the main magazine was pretty impressive. It did demonstrate very graphically how the armour protection could  be very dangerous in confining an internal fire or explosion so that the pressure built up and ruptured the structure. That is why they build fireworks and explosives factories with thick walls and thin roofs to vent accidental explosions. It was probably because a large part of Q turret roof was already missing that HMS Lion didn't break apart when the cordite in the turret trunk caught fire a while after the hit that disabled the turret.

What all these programmes demonstrate is that you simply cannot do justice to a complex event like the Battle of Jutland in a one hour TV slot.

Colin
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dreadnought72

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2016, 10:51:50 am »

^ For sure.


TV's strength is (duh!) portraying visual feeling - the cramped labyrinth of USS Texas, the sonar images of the Jutland wrecks, the demonstration of enclosed cordite fires: all came across well.


Its failure, as always, is the pitch to the target audience. I suppose if you knew nothing about the battle, you'd come away somewhat educated. If, however, you'd bothered to read a book or even the Wiki article on Jutland you'd be left vaguely unsatisfied.


It's always the way.


I think to most people The Great War will always be defined by the Western Front: no doubt TV's 'big push' (i.e. where the money will have been spent) will be more focussed on the Somme this July.


Andy
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2016, 11:00:18 am »

Slightly off topic but I have just re read Martin Middlebrook's book 'The First Day on the Somme'. Originally published in 1971 it is absolutely gripping, especially if you have visited the area.

Colin
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Geoff

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2016, 09:34:03 am »

Magazines were designed to vent because the relatively slow pressure build up of a cordite fire should have given time for the pressure to be released and avoid a catastrophic explosion. The flame was intended to vent along the outside of the internal turret trunking. The trouble is that vent pieces create weak points in the magazine protection. A lot of work was done with vent testing before WW1 and after WW1 and it was determined that venting created unacceptable paths for flash to get into a magazine so it was abandoned. Only heavy armour can protect a magazine.

The unanswered question re the Jutland explosions was why did the cordite explode when it was only designed to burn. There were impurities in the cordite which made it more unstable as it aged so it "flashed over" and exploded when in quantity rather than just burn. This was another reason for the loss of the Battlecruisers though the prime reason was negligent handling of the cordite charges and stowage in exposed positions effectively laying a fuse to the magazines together with removing flash precautions to speed up the rate of fire.

As commented above Jutland was a very complex battle in bad visibility which does not come across well when showing diagrams etc.

 
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raflaunches

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2016, 09:16:35 am »

Well I've just finished watching all the Jutland documentaries over the different channels and I still believe that the best one was the Clash of Dreadnoughts which aired in 2003. However I thought the little advertised documentary about HMS Caroline presented by Dick Strawbridge and son was an example of programmes I'd want to see more of.
For those who didn't see it originally like me it's available on the BBC iplayer and is titled:
Belfast's forgotten hero- HMS Caroline

Whilst it didn't concentrate on the naval engagement it did give a stunning insight of the restoration of the ship and the things they find on board from 100 years ago.
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Bob K

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2016, 10:31:12 am »

I visit N Ireland quite a lot as we have family there.  First time I saw HMS Caroline I was surprised to know it was there, tucked behind what is now the Titanic quarter, afloat and with a block of offices on its deck as it was still a commissioned warship then.  I was glad to know they are setting about restoring her, the last ship existing from the battle of Jutland.  Small guns and no armour.  Crazy? 
Lots of video clips of her, and the start of restoration, on YouTube.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2016, 08:08:04 pm »

I have just bought the recently published book on the Jutland wrecks by Innes McCartney https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jutland-1916-Innes-McCartney/dp/1844864162 It isn't cheap at 27 but it does go very thoroughly into the current condition of the wrecks and attempts to reconcile what is now on the seabed with contemporary eyewitness accounts. If you like that sort of thing is is absolutely fascinating and has sobering descriptions of the physical effects caused by a magazine explosion in a large warship. Structures are not so much blown up as blown apart with incredible violence. It seems unlikely that most of the crews would have known much about it.

This book does add something new and worthwhile to the Jutland story.

Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: Literature about the Battle of Jutland
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2016, 07:51:28 pm »

I read this book on holiday a few weeks ago and I thoroughly agree with Colin that the book is worth a read, if not just for under water imagery of the wrecks. Its amazing how they manage to identify even the smallest of destroyers using the new under water sonar imagery.
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Nick B

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