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Author Topic: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry  (Read 4681 times)

Coomkeen

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Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« on: March 29, 2016, 01:31:31 PM »

Hello All,

First post, so little introduction.
Been into full size sailing all my life, up and down English Channel with family etc.
Family now got their own boats, and myself and wife have moved to West Cork in Ireland.
Only single handing in Drascombe Lugger now.

So, having also been into RC gliders for many years, thought it was time to change to RC model yachts.
Just as in intro, I've ordered a cheap 1 metre (not sure it measures for IOM) from HobbyKing.
Still waiting for it to arrive.

But it strikes me there will be a need for some instrumentation aboard.
Not easy to sail 'seat of the pants' like I always did full size.
So is there any ready made model sailing system available?
Only really need wind direction and water speed.
Wind speed would be nice.

Done the usual Googleing but haven't found anything usefull.
The systems that are available seem to be firmly aimed at speed boats.

All ideas welcome.
Perhaps there is an Arduino based system or something like that?

Cheer,
Ron
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dreadnought72

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 02:28:06 PM »

Perhaps there is an Arduino based system or something like that?


Hi Ron!


I'm not sure there is one, but there could be.  :-))


Hot wire anemometer - while great for wind strength, several of these could be rigged and read to provide directional info.


Arduino GPS - boat speed, direction, location.


Telemetry - getting the numbers back.


The stuff is out there. It's reasonably cheap. It's just a question of nailing it all together and losing hours to the coding side of things.


Welcome aboard!


Andy









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tigertiger

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 03:32:28 PM »

I am not sure the numbers would help at all.

Wind direction across the boat is what matters the most, perhaps. The best telemetry would be live video feed with the camera pointed at tell-tails. Wind speed is of less importance, as you get as much wind as you are given. You can watch the water surface to try to find wind, but not really helpful except on calm days.
I think that everywhere that I have sailed the wind conditions can change in seconds. By the time you look down, you have lost a degree of control of the boat.

Unless of course you are thinking of some kind of fly by wire system. Perhaps important for trimming speedboats, that are inherently unstable at speed. Overkill for more sedentary sailing, and it would probably take all of the skill out of making the boat sail better, as you would mostly just be steering.

Sailing by the 'seat of your pants' is really easy, and fun. It just takes a while for you to learn your new boat to get the best out of it.

My 2 cents.
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radiojoe

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 05:53:54 PM »

With respect Ron I think you are over thinking the sailing of model yachts, you have a scaled down yacht in a full scale environment, just stick a tell tail atop the mast, pop her in the water and get a "feel" for it.  %%
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Netleyned

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 06:09:05 PM »

Hobbyking yachts don't do what you want apart from lay flat
in any sort of breeze.


Ned
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Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2016, 06:21:46 PM »

Thanks all for the feedback and remarks.

The hot wire anemometer, four of, rigged to give wind direction was in my mind for a few fleeting moments.
I had to write some test code for such a device once. Used as wind speed and direction for aiming the gun on a tank.
That's before I managed to get out of that environment.

A GPS would be easy enough.
And getting the numbers back... yes there are many 'licence free band' devices out there.
Water speed would be interesting.

But wind direction relative to the boat is the thing.
There is a 360 degree pot out there somewhere, with ball bearings for low friction.

I was not thinking so much of fly-by-wire. That would take the fun out of it anyway.
But to make comparisons for rig changes for example.
"Can I get closer to the wind and still mantain a decent hull speed with this new rig" type of thing.

Hmmmm...
Keep thinking.

Yeah, thanks Ned.
HobbyKing is a "get something in the water" resort 😀
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dreadnought72

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 08:52:18 PM »

But wind direction relative to the boat is the thing.
There is a 360 degree pot out there somewhere, with ball bearings for low friction.


Hall Effect sensors for even less drag on bb'd vane?


Andy
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Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 09:05:28 PM »

Hi Andy,
Turns out the 'pot' is a shaft encoder with various outputs.
http://www.usdigital.com/products/ma3
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Nemo

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2016, 09:20:32 PM »

With respect Ron I think you are over thinking the sailing of model yachts, you have a scaled down yacht in a full scale environment, just stick a tell tail atop the mast, pop her in the water and get a "feel" for it.  %%

EXACTLY what I was thinking!  :-))

Bob. (ex - Snapdragon 27)
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Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 07:50:13 AM »

Yes, I agree with you Bob and RadioJoe.
I guess I can't stop the geek in me wanting to put gadgets all over it.
As if I didn't have enough electronic projects already....
Like the morse keyer for the paddle key, a QRP tranceiver for day's out in the hills, etc. etc.
And when it comes to it, "just pop it in the water and get a feel for it" will be exactly what happens.  :-)
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Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 07:52:03 AM »

P.S.
Might use that shaft encoder for a weather station in the garden.
(Oh shut up and eat your breakfast!)
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SailorGreg

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 08:21:46 AM »

Not sure which Hobbyking boat you have ordered but you will probably need to invest in a couple of kilos of lead shot to fill the keel bulb (then pour epoxy in to fix it in place). And you may well choose to ditch all of the standing rigging as the supplied stuff is completely naff.  I used bits and pieces from Nylet to put wire rigging and proper adjusters on the mast. The sails are also "economy" versions and to someone used to properly constructed full size sails look horrible.

I have the Angel from HK.  Nice hull. I built a new fin (supplied one way too flexible), re-rigged the mast and am considering either making or buying new sails. Overall great value for money but not really ready to sail.  If you want more details let me know.

Good sailing

Greg

Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 08:33:39 AM »

Thanks Greg,
It's the 'Thunder 1000mm' - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=47902

No worries with the lead ballast. Got some lead flashing left over from the roof.

I did suspect that most of it would be 'made down to a price'.
May not last more than one trip 😀
I'll keep your comments handy....
Cheers,
Ron
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radiojoe

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 09:29:54 AM »

Ron I don't think your lead flashing will be much use, as Greg said you have to "fill" the keel bulb with lead shot, if you have a gun shop near you could get some there, I suppose you could nibble tiny bits off the flashing but shot fills the space better. :-))
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tigertiger

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 11:32:53 AM »

I think the lead shot from gun shops ain't lead any more. {:-{



There are 'how tos' for making bulbs from lead flashing, using the contour method.
There are also plans available for making moulds for different types/sizes/weights of keel bulb, for optimum performance.
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Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2016, 03:43:35 PM »

Well, I was going to melt the flashing into 'blobs' with a blow torch, to make my own sort of lead shot. But I could mould the complete thing.
Will search for plans etc.
thanks for the tips.
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SailorGreg

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 07:04:55 PM »

Yes, the hole in the HK bulb is about 10 mm in diameter - you need small stuff to pour in, not large lumps.  I bought two of these and made a small paper funnel to pour it into the bulb.  Lots of tapping and pushing to pack it tight then epoxy dribbled in to fix it. (Not sure if it's actual lead or not, but it sure is heavy!)  If you go ahead and mould your own do read all the warnings about pouring lead into moulds, especially plaster ones!  (Dry them thoroughly otherwise they go bang)

Good sailing

Greg

Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2016, 08:18:11 PM »

That looks a good source of 'heavy stuff', whether lead or not.
I used to do a bit of sand casting, many years ago.
Like you say, water and damp is VERY dodgy, and quite dangerous.

Think I might try making small blobs of lead.
Used to do it by melting lead bit by bit and letting it drop or dribble into oil.
The idea with oil is so it doesn't go splat like it can into water.

But maybe just as easy to slice up the sheet into thin strips, then chop small bits off them.

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david48

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 09:40:53 AM »

Lead shot is  available from ,   www.theleadweightcompany.co.uk .
Yet again I am haveing computer problems so I can not post a link .
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SailorGreg

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 05:00:15 PM »

Quote from: david48 link=topic=54378 O0.msg562810#msg562810 date=1459413653
Yet again I am haveing computer problems so I can not post a link .

But you did post a link.   O0

Coomkeen

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Re: Hello & Sailing yacht telemetry
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 05:21:46 PM »

Internet problems here.
But, so, what's new.

Many thanks for the lead weight link.
Bookmarked it.  O0
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