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Author Topic: primer on brass  (Read 7188 times)

Hande

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primer on brass
« on: April 22, 2016, 06:49:11 PM »

I have done some homework and found already that for brass I want etching primer (whatever that is in Finnish...).


But out of curiosity, what is WRONG here. I'm apprehensive about painting and this scares the guts out of me:
I used Vallejo primer "suitable for brass" (among other). After 20 hours of curing, gentle rubbing with a kitchen towel took it away - no trace left...


Getting desperate already - and this is my first paint job on my build.





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raflaunches

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 07:02:00 PM »

I have always used an etch primer when I use paint on brass, I didn't think that Vallejo was strong enough to be used on something like a propeller- its too soft even when cured.
To be honest I have never painted any of my propellers leaving them natural-either brass or bronze.
One question: Do you really need to paint your props? If you do then I suggest find some etch primer and go from there, but not many models I've seen have them painted.
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Captain fizz

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 07:04:39 PM »

Short of powder coating, very little is going to stay on a prop for long.


Simon
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Hande

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 07:17:44 PM »

I see -  :((


Thinking back - Without giving the matter much thought I thinned the Vallejo polyurethan "surface primer" with Vallejo acrylic resin thinner. I wonder if they are a match..? I just took it the same way I have practiced thinning the proper paints.


Props could be left unpainted, true.
However, there are other parts provided in the kit that are brass and have to be painted.

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warspite

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 08:11:03 PM »

I've painted my brass on Sovereign with just enamel paint and its not peeled off yet - mind you its not been on the water for some time. Planing to use a primer like Halfords or would just any Humbrol / Revell primer be OK?.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 08:13:22 PM »

Photo etched components have been in use for many years and should not pose a painting problem with proper preparation but as Captain Fizz says, painting a polished brass prop that is going to be rotating at several thousand RPM is asking rather a lot!

However, brass does tend to tarnish after a while which takes a lot of the shine off if that is the look you want. There are chemicals which can help the process along, somebody will be able to suggest something.

Colin
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tonyH

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 08:34:18 PM »

You could use something like Hammerite which normally sticks like....................but you'd have to use their Special Metals Primer which is probably an etch primer anyway.
That said, wouldn't the paint effect the efficiency of the prop?
 :o
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Hande

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 09:00:46 PM »

Photo etched components have been in use for many years and should not pose a painting problem with proper preparation but as Captain Fizz says, painting a polished brass prop that is going to be rotating at several thousand RPM is asking rather a lot!

Colin


The props aren't polished anymore. I sanded them well to make them have tooth for the primer.


I'm building a tug with geared down motors. Not that fast I guess...


Maybe I should just have thinned the primer with water. I may have created synthetic rubber with the acrylic resin?


I'm going to get etching primer tomorrow for the winch drums and other fittings and think about the props a little more. In many pictures of models, the props are actually painted. Maybe they are painted once a year?



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Stan

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 09:11:25 PM »

Hi Hande  see pm to you.I use Phoenix Precision Paints brass etch primer.It can be applied by brush  best  results are obtained by spraying. Allow the primer to dry then apply the paint finish. Contact Phonenix for more information hope this helps good luck.


Stan.
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Hande

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2016, 09:13:56 PM »

Thank you (got the PM, too)  :-)

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Hande

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2016, 10:58:17 PM »

I found quite comprehensive advice by Phoenix Precision Paints.

The stuff they are suggesting for cleaning before applying is scary, though

Etch primer seems to be the best solution. There are two types: single pack and two-pack. Don't buy single pack, unless there is a best-before-date marked on the package and that date is still ahead of you. The acids evaporate within a year from manufacture (not sale).


I continued my research on Vallejo Surface Primer. Apparently, it is NOT TO BE DILUTED at all. Thinning is exactly the method of creating that rubbery goo that I managed to create.



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essex2visuvesi

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 12:13:34 AM »

I found quite comprehensive advice by Phoenix Precision Paints.
The stuff they are suggesting for cleaning before applying is scary, though...


Etch primer seems to be the best solution. There are two types: single pack and two-pack. Don't buy single pack, unless there is a best-before-date marked on the package and that date is still ahead of you. The acids evaporate within a year from manufacture (not sale).


I continued my research on Vallejo Surface Primer. Apparently, it is NOT TO BE DILUTED at all. Thinning is exactly the method of creating that rubbery goo that I managed to create.


Your local Fixus should be able to supply you with a can of U-Pol Acid etch primer.... Not cheap but sticks like poo to the proverbial blanket
http://www.fixusnet.fi/fin/happopohjamaali_harmaa_u_pol-p-623134-0/


You can probably find it cheaper elsewhere
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Hande

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 12:42:01 AM »

"Happopohjamaali" - now, there's a mouthful even for a Finn  %%  I have never heard that word...
Thanks E2V  :-))
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Stavros

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2016, 08:46:32 AM »

As with all metals and NO lets not go to the old debarkle of it works for me,in fact you do NEED to etch prime all metals.
A
Halfords sell U pol etch primer ....it is like water and you wont loose detail.

Right reason for etch primer is simple....it promotes adhesion.

Dave
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derekwarner

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2016, 09:19:06 AM »

Hande.......I understand you have questioned primer on brass, however specifically intend such use on a propeller

This itself is questionable for scale  :o....would a bath of copper sulphate + blackening chemical not provide a lifelike greenish surface similar to bronze that has been immersed in salt water?

The other issue for a propeller is aeration/cavitation or and sand in the water........all  of which will tend to <*< remove any painted surface............... Derek 
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Fubar

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 10:04:16 AM »

Just wondering if you have tried a 2 part epoxy paint ?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 10:26:37 AM »

2 part epoxy, assuming that it works, would be a VERY expensive option unless you happen to have some lying around.

A friend of mine had his props sandblasted to dull them down. He said it worked well.

Colin
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Fubar

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2016, 10:58:32 AM »

12 / 250 ml , Border Paints Shrewsbury.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2016, 12:12:44 PM »

That sounds interesting Fubar, I'm only familiar with the boat 2 part epoxies which tend to come in at around 35. Is there a direct link as I couldn't see it on the Border Paints website?

Colin
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inertia

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 12:18:00 PM »

Dave
Is the U-Pol product the one sold as 'Acid #8 Etch Primer' @ 20 a can?
DM
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2016, 12:22:45 PM »

Dave
Is the U-Pol product the one sold as 'Acid #8 Etch Primer' @ 20 a can?
DM


That's the stuff!
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Fubar

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2016, 12:29:46 PM »

@Colin,
 Try adding Automotive into the name provided and give them a ring !
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Colin Bishop

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2016, 01:01:00 PM »

I found the website OK but can't see a reference to two part epoxy in the paint section, just the usual two part colour/clear coat combinations. I don't actually want to buy any at the moment but availability could be useful for future reference.

Colin
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Subculture

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2016, 02:17:50 PM »

Epoxy is overkill I think.

If you want a cheap and cheerful solution, get a cup of vinegar, enough to immerse the prop in, get some vinegar and add a spoon or two of salt. Protect the thread of the prop boss by blanking off with candle wax, and immerse the prop until it loses all its shine. Rinse off then prime with a normal primer. Should stay put.

Hande

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Re: primer on brass
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2016, 04:53:28 PM »



....would a bath of copper sulphate + blackening chemical not provide a lifelike greenish surface similar to bronze that has been immersed in salt water?

.. Derek


Thanks, Derek, for the idea! If the paint comes off, I could attempt that in future. What is an example of a blackening chemical? I'm ignorant and slightly phobic of chemicals in general, and painting inparticular  :embarrassed:
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