Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat  (Read 16137 times)

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« on: May 14, 2016, 08:48:39 pm »

Hey guys I am used to doing Super Scale R/C Planes from factory drawings and the like, but now I have grandkids that are 4 and 6 and at the right age i feel safe taking them down to the river where we feed the ducks and geese.

since they listen and act way more mature than their age I thought it would be fun to build and sail some boats with them.

I look for plans online and most dont even compare to the stuff we get for planes as they are very sparsely drawn with not much details. I want to bring my plane drawing into ships and possibly come up with a super detailed set of plans.

so here my delema,

1: I cant seem to find anything cool that trips my trigger to start with

2: dont know crap abt boats

3: I would love to do something eventually like a tall ship like the constitution or the sorts

4: has to have lot of cool scale detail goodies

5: would like to maybe do something like an old sail cutter with motor too like the old steam cutters.

6: doesnt have to have sails for first one just something super detailable like maybe a paddle wheel delta queen would be awesome since sailing will be on the mississippi river, or even to do an african queen (big bogey fan here) with working steam engine

7: like all my stuff it will be large boat prob 4-6 ft long range but a nice cargo ship or yacht would do too

Any help and ideas i would love as i am totally lost at the moment. I want to go as scale as possible with the hull as i notice some ppl orry abt above water but use an unscale hull and the ship or boat doesnt seem to look right if you know what I mean


Problem is I dont like kits and what plans I do find out there dont even qualify to me as plans and I got bilked out of 50 bucks for a so called set of plans that was nothing but a top and side view with abt 5 stations shown so I am leery when it comes to boats
Logged

imsinking

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
  • Location: Merseyside
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2016, 09:39:55 pm »

Hey , DE JA VU Joe,  :-))  your better being on here than our little club website , massive number of knowledgeable folk available here , & e mail notification runs on here to (sometimes ) again good luck with your quest .  O0 
Bill
Logged

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2016, 09:42:42 pm »

I found a link with several plans I have been downloading need to check them out now there are some nice ships on there maybe do a cargo ship or the Andrea Doria need to open them see how they are now.

the link is http://freeshipplans.com/
Logged

Umi_Ryuzuki

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,395
  • Location: PDX, OR USA
    • Models and Miniatures
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 01:27:57 am »

Emma Maersk  :-))

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,464
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 01:33:11 am »

Umi......the Emma has beautiful underwater lines for a vessel called a Box Boat  :o........

Interestingly, I cannot see any frame profile reference in the Body Plan from 0 to the first mark [400?] so we miss out on her pointy end of the bulbous bow & the forepeak.............Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 02:18:37 am »

see  that is abt all i seem to get for plans however I happened to find some nice really close to what I call plans of the Andrea Doria I think I will start with if i can ever get my friggin solidworks to install

but I saved those to play around with tyvm
Logged

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2016, 04:35:26 am »

Well since my solidworks wont open I guess for now will try turbocad 2015 pro to do my 3D drawings. I will be Modelling the Andrea Doria and as soon as I get familiar with the software and get going will start a thread for my design/build so hopefully I can get some guiding hands to steer me in the right direction and some hickory switches to say Bad Boy when I do something stupid lol
Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,464
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2016, 06:33:21 am »

Joseph........... welcome to MBM.... :-)) ...

I did not know the name of the vessel Andrea Doria, however GOOGLE finds many vessels with this name .......ranging from cruise liners to warships ....which rendition [& hence scale] are you considering?

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2016, 06:38:09 am »

http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/passenger-ship-plans/andrea-doria/

it is a cruise ship it sunk in one of the most famous maritime disasters off the coast of the US when it was rammed in the side by another cruise ship while sailing in the fog

these plans are really close to what I was looking for and I will cad them up as soon as I learn turbocad pro since cant get my solidworks to install.

will be 1/96 scale or 87.677083 inches long
Logged

BFSMP

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,091
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Knott End on Sea
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2016, 10:43:14 am »

http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/passenger-ship-plans/andrea-doria/

it is a cruise ship it sunk in one of the most famous maritime disasters off the coast of the US when it was rammed in the side by another cruise ship while sailing in the fog


Joseph, they were, actually both the Andrea Doria and the Stockholm, in fact Ocean Liners, as opposed to the modern idiom cruise ship.....a very subtle difference, as liners served a regular route transporting passengers from A to B, unlike cruise ships which go jollying off around the world on hand picked routes. They also carried mail and some cargo from time to time for those resettling in foreign lands, unlike cruise ships, built especially for on purpose only.....making money from passengers having usually a good time, unless hit down by the cruise ship's favorite......Norovirus, lol.

Not that I am jealous, of course.

Jim.
Logged
life is like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic!

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2016, 06:02:55 pm »

ok well i got solidworks to install finally but got a little bug in trying to run it to figure out but I am getting closer.

Now some design questions

1: with the boat going to be 7.3 foot long I was wondering abt how you determine the thickness of the keel and I am assuming probably 1/4" ply?

2: should the upper superstructures be 1/8" ply?

3: I was thinking in the keel having a box the length of the keel so I could put poxy and buckshot mix in for ballasting

am I on the right track so far?
Logged

Arrow5

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,873
  • Location: Scottish Highlands
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2016, 06:54:02 pm »

Welcome to Mayhem.  First consideration before building such a large(ish) :D model, how are you going to transport it and launch it ? Vague answers to your questions    1. 1" or 3/4" would be better.  2. 1/8" with a lot of 1/16" marine or model aircraft birch.  3, Ballast with auto battery(ies)  Epoxying lead shot not a good idea. How do you remove it for trimming ?  Scrap metal /iron cheap or free even house bricks would do. Should be placed at each side of the bilges not on keel centreline.  Those free plans are very basic and not really good enough.  Best plans seem to be from the European site, Germany, Poland and France seem to be best, all metric of course and in those languages, sometimes English.  What about Umi`s suggestion of the Emma Maersk, lines are there and detail galore in the thousands of containers with all the liveries available on the web for easy and free download.
Logged
..well can you land on this?

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2016, 07:10:18 pm »

looks nice but if you look at the Doria plans they are really super detailed. Plus I do 1/4 qnd 1/3 scalr aircraft so I have a 9 ft by 5 ft trailer for hauling stuff )).

I will be cadding this up and making sure everything fits etc.

meanwhile I will be building some kind of small boat but I like to do things big and out there. and you dont see many these round here always tugs, cargo, warships etc. but no ocean liners etc.

I think I will be fine I have 40+ yrs dealing with planes so I think with some help from the community and little trial and error ill get it going
Logged

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2016, 08:51:00 pm »

Some one else may suggest this as well, when you have created your lines for the outside of the ship less the skin or two depending on what thickness you are going to make her, plan for as big a box ( crate )as possible as the main centre compartment, i.e. create a single or several ever reducing boxes at the front and rear first all flush with the top deck  (less the deck skin), and then the frames can be fitted to these boxes, a solid box, means that you can position the ballast where you want and compartmentalise it as deemed fit, it also saves on masses of material being used for the frames as they can be constructed from not very wide sections of wood.

Alternatively check out the HMS illustrious build log and see how that is tackled, others may be able to suggest other box construction vessels or framed vessels that conform to this scale.

Or I could be completely wrong. :embarrassed:
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2016, 08:58:01 pm »

ok ill check it out thanks. I got the keel redrawn and abt to do some modifications for boxes. but time for a nap I just got home from working out of town (remodeling a business) and tonight start the next remodel so will be working little each day in 2D til I can get my 3D going then drawings will scream as it is much easier to draw in 3d than 2d as you can get better visualizations and solidworks has weight and CG programs as well as curve  tools to test and check as well as flow tests too for liquids
Logged

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2016, 09:21:06 pm »

Screenshots of the Keel and Bulkheads. Still need to Adjust them for Ballast Boxes



Logged

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2016, 09:31:00 pm »

You could have 3 boxes running from 3 from the right top row, changing from 2 on the 2nd row to the 2nd on the 3rd row and then the 3rd box to the 6th on the 3rd row, the two outer boxes don't need to be as deep in the hull as the middle box and the middle box would act as the stiffener for a reduced keel depth, the boxes don't even need to be square either, tapering to suit the changing width of the frames, if the box is made of a suitably thick material and sealed extensively before adding the frames it could be designed not to warp so that the frames stay square to the box.
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2016, 09:40:41 pm »

check out the ULCC and SS Ohio build logs (though the ULCC photos for the box construction are missing, the photo's of her insides will be easy to figure out).
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

Liverbudgie2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 99
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Earth.
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2016, 11:39:29 pm »

ok well i got solidworks to install finally but got a little bug in trying to run it to figure out but I am getting closer.

Now some design questions

1: with the boat going to be 7.3 foot long I was wondering abt how you determine the thickness of the keel and I am assuming probably 1/4" ply?
Personally I would make the keel from 1/2" sq ply at the centre narrowing down to 1/8" x 1" or more in the bow and stern areas. Your frames should be cut from 1/4" thick material.
2: should the upper superstructures be 1/8" ply?
No. Far too heavy.  I prefer using  "Lite Ply" sheathed with 1/32" or 1/64" aircraft ply. Decks should be 1/16" ply and covered with planks of the correct size or a sheet of 1/16" ply  say with planks marked out in ink or pencil
3: I was thinking in the keel having a box the length of the keel so I could put poxy and buckshot mix in for ballasting
Don't bother. Use your batteries or lumps of lead or concrete even, anything in fact that you can easily remove to aid transportation.

am I on the right track so far? Up to a point - yes. However, I would suggest that you think about how you going to fit and access the propeller shafts, motor mountings, rudder and linkages, servo and radio mounting,  battery mountings and so on before you begin building and certainly before you begin planking the hull.


And the best of luck to you.
LB
Logged

Umi_Ryuzuki

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,395
  • Location: PDX, OR USA
    • Models and Miniatures
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 01:13:33 am »

Screenshots of the Keel and Bulkheads. Still need to Adjust them for Ballast Boxes





No one ever did that for ships I wanted to build.
I always had to research, and then get out the Mayline parallel bar, triangles and french curves.
The reason you see front and back lines together on one drawing, is because the best way to
match the line to the opposite side was to copy it, fold the paper in half and cut the frame line.
Unfolding it gave you matched sides. Then I would have to work out the rest of the ship.

 %)

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2016, 06:16:04 pm »

and for those worried this my first boat and should start simpler because concerns losing stuff let me explain my thinking process

I have done the plastic model R/C Boat bit before then I was younger and I have built a hydro long ago with the old K & B outboards. but never seriously got into it and now I am wanting to.

 But also after 40+ yrs of planes I have lot of scrap supplies lying around and it doesnt cost me anything to laser cut me a kit out. Remembering I am a plane designer its the same thing I design a 1/4 or 1/3 scale warbird build it all up not knowing if it will fly put a big exspensive engine and retracts in goto the field and hope it actually flies.
 
 with boats I can put it in a pool where it is easy to recover and strand there see if she floats if she starts to go down i am standing there and can just scoop her up and figure out the problem. so to me there really is less risk  going all out on a boat than a plane as I have control over the boat where as a plane once it is in the air i dont have no control over it either i crash a 2k plane or it flies
Logged

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2016, 06:25:48 pm »

Thanks Liver appreciate the input I had thought on that stuff at work last night and for superstructure I had thought possibly foamboard or the like and sheeting it in verneer.

as for the keel Sounds good to me I only work with lite plys anyways never saw a need for 5 ply except for engine area and retract area

I have been thinking a lot about acess and possibly have some ideas I just need my solidworks running because i can try to explain all day and unless ppl can visualize it including me t wont necessarily make sense.

from 1990-2002 I was plant manager at a bass boat factory and before bass boats we built 36 ft marlin fishing boats with twin volvo penta deisels. so I have real world experiences with drives and stuffing boxes etc I figured would help me with this design. lol i have had my share of packing drive shafts not hard but not fun either
Logged

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2016, 08:22:00 pm »

This is what I mean about the box construction the open faces are the areas for the gubbins to go in and the bar along the top is your keel. (yep its upside down). or on its end depending on what you are looking at.
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

warspite

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,757
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2016, 08:26:28 pm »

or like this if you don't want to open the pdf  {-)
Logged
Operational - 1/72 LCMIII, 1/180 Sovereign, HMS Victory to be sailed
Non Operational - 1/72 Corvette, 1/72 E-Boat, 1/72 vosper mtb
incomplete, tug, cardboard castle class convert

JosephHuntley

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 117
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
Re: Hello From USA Wanting help with first boat
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2016, 08:28:53 pm »

lol yea I understand what you were meaning. I am kinda waiting til I can figure out what is wrong with my solidworks i keep getting a "The Application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect" error now and so far the fixes I find arent working.

when its fixed I can put it all together in 3D and work out the bx layouts, but I unerstand what you are getting at
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.104 seconds with 22 queries.