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Author Topic: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel  (Read 33468 times)

cos918

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #175 on: March 17, 2018, 07:11:12 PM »

was it a Humbrol enamel spray can you used ?
John
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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #176 on: March 17, 2018, 07:17:48 PM »

No John, it was one of the midi tinlets (30ml?) along with their enamel thinners as the diluent, done to a ratio of 60 paint 40 thinner, so I can't even say that it was over thinned either - I always err on the thick side and add extra diluent if needed.

cos918

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #177 on: March 17, 2018, 07:23:44 PM »

At a guess .
Halfords paints are all acrylic unless other wise stated on the can .
The thiners for the enamel most problem cause the problem, If you had painted it neat Humbrol chances are it would have been ok . Say that never seen a reaction like that .


John
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Mark T

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #178 on: March 17, 2018, 07:47:30 PM »

Well done for getting the paint off so quickly Brian it probably saved you loads more work.  I too have never seen a reaction like that its looks like oil on water its that bad.  I hope the new acrylics are ok.
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Steve Mahoney

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #179 on: March 17, 2018, 08:08:08 PM »

Bummer! I find liberal quantities of beer often helps in these situations.
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Stavros

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #180 on: March 17, 2018, 09:56:49 PM »

Never seen that kind of reaction very odd.........Strange to have a reaction with enamel going over an aerosol....will try some test panels with some Humbrol enamel tomorrow...................I presume it is the new acrylic humbol we are talking about....if so ill have to buy a tinlet to experiment.


MMM Having re read the previous postings something is bugging me here BIG TIME....you say you have sprayed it in the spare bedroom,interesting.


Does your wife do her hair in there.
Does your wife spray perfume.
Do YOU wear any deoderant.


Just a THOUGHT


Could well be a silicone contaminant of some form


Dave
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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #181 on: March 18, 2018, 08:04:16 AM »

Thanks for all the replies.

Stavros - the room isn't used for anything other than my modelling and my wife painting watercolours or storing her crochet/knitting stuff. However this might be a possibility as to what has happened.........

The car primer, I won't call it Halfords, it isn't - its a proprietry brand to Spain just like Holts is in the UK. However I sprayed the rattle cans on thursday evening, room was pre heated into the 70's so it was warm, but then the temp was turned off leaving ambient room temp. I'm just wondering whether when I sprayed the Humbrol the next morning, whether the primer had finished curing or not. It was dry to the touch, but you never know! The Humbrol is the enamel (used to be oil based in years gone by) thinned with their own enamel thinner although turps or white spirit could be used, it is not Humbrol acrylics.

I do have some left in the rattle cans, I might do a couple of test panels later today, 1 with the white primer and 1 with the red oxide and see what happens a second time.

I already know the red oxide was fine with the Humbrol, it covered it perfectly with no runs, even coverage etc. So a side by side test on some A4 plasticard sheet, spray each with the primers, leave to set up a few hours and then spray the Humbrol on both, see what happens then.

nemesis

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #182 on: March 18, 2018, 02:40:17 PM »

Had a similar situation a few years ago, just about tore what out little hair I had. This job ended up with 14 coats of paint rubbed down between them and still had holes appearing as if by magic. It turned out to be WD40 in the workshop. That product is now banned inside, use only outside, nemesis
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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #183 on: March 18, 2018, 06:04:58 PM »

I've not run any test panels. However I think it may be down to the primer not being cured. This morning I went to peel off the masking tape and Frisk film. The masking tape is Tamiya which if anyone uses it will know it is very low tack for plastic modelling. Frisk film is the same sort of stuff in sheet form - you use it for cutting stencils and then spray before peeling off, again very low tack.

Anyway it was more of a struggle to get the masking off and when it came away it left behind the sticky residue, which I had to remove with a rag and white spirit. SO I think it was not cured properly, the diluents in the car primer were still active even though the paint felt dry. Obviously turning off the heat, the room chilled down too far for the paint to dry. Heating has been on in that room all day now, so hopefully tomorrow will yield better results - we shall see.

ballastanksian

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #184 on: March 18, 2018, 07:55:59 PM »


Regarding Turpentine, go careful as I used to use it to thin varnish and washes when finishing models and found it wrinkled the vellejo acrylics underneath and so went over to using white spirit.


Proper turps is quite potent despite smelling nice  %%



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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #185 on: March 28, 2018, 01:07:28 PM »

Shall we do an update? ooooh yes lets O0

OK this is just a paint update as its taken me since the last time to sort out the mess. Following on from that cleanup on my last post, I went ahead and used Vallejo acrylic instead of Humbrol - almost the same result, so a second clean up and a sit back and think about it all.

I retrieved the can of primer from my tool room and the problem was obvious. Some prat of a customer had swapped tops on the spray can! I had pulled it out of the rack marked  primera blanco (rough translation white primer, it is literally first white) the cap was stamped primera blanco, but the can itself showed a cycle - hmmm paint for bikes, dunno if it still is but that used to be polychromatic which doesn't like playing with other types. I took it back to the shop and received the ususal response - a shrug of the shoulders. I bought another can (no replacements here! rubbed down completely the white on the hull and re-primed.

Not taking chances this time, I brush painted the stern with Vallejo acrylic and left it to dry - result! So I brushed the rest of the hull blue, allowed it to dry overnight then rubbed it down again before several spray coats over the top to level things out. Then on to the difficult bits %) %)

All the hull lettering and marking I cut stencils on my laser cutter into low tack film, sprayed those on then the decals that say eni norge which were coloured on a white background, I made using decal paper and an ordinary inkjet colour printer. Lastly the hull depth markings which were too small and fiddly to do  I used commercially available sticky decals. I don't really like these as the thickness of the vinyl is difficult to bury under clearcoat. Last time I used them the ship had 10 coats of clear on it and the edges of the decals were still discernible, still, needs must.

So that's it for now except to show the photo's. Next update the build continues. Oh lastly, any white parts on the superstructure need redoing, there are several parts that have blue overspray - poor masking! So these will also be done next update as well.

Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #186 on: March 28, 2018, 01:09:45 PM »

New stern decking and railing shown here along with if you can just make it out, the signage attached to the inboard rail of the superstructure, showing the colours and designation for the various hose connections for liquid cargo, ie barites, potable water, diesel etc etc.

Mark T

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #187 on: March 28, 2018, 01:33:30 PM »

Looking very nice Brian  :-))   Iíve never used Vallejo acrylics are they hard wearing or do you need to clear coat them to make them more durable?
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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #188 on: March 28, 2018, 02:15:48 PM »

They are primarily marketed for plastic scale models, shown in dioramas and for table top wargames etc. In those instances they are clearcoated with acrylic clearcoat for that specific purpose - and are supposed to be waterproof. However I prefer to make doubly sure and clearcoat with an enamel polyurthane. I would prefer not to find out they are only water resistant and not waterproof! %%

hama

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #189 on: March 28, 2018, 02:20:41 PM »

That looks stunning,  congratulations!
You have really worked hard to get here, and now it pays off.
Can't wait to see the rest.
Hama
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ballastanksian

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #190 on: March 28, 2018, 09:00:13 PM »


Vellejo has a period during curing when they are a bit like vinyl and can be damaged but do cure our after a few days especially in warm conditions. Definitly do as Brian suggested and give any areas that may get damaged such as hull sides or masts etc a good coat of gloss varnish. You can dust a coat of matt over the top once dried to remove sheen.


Looking fabulous Brian! I like the blue very much. I am glad you found your paint problem and rectified it, and also the rebuild of the superstructure rear is good. I would not have known you had to tear it out furiously to get to annoying things to rebuild.



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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #191 on: March 28, 2018, 09:31:56 PM »

Well done Brian,

The model is looking great.  8) 8) 8)

Steve Mahoney

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #192 on: March 28, 2018, 09:56:31 PM »

Excellent work on the hull markings, well done all round.
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chipchase

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #193 on: March 28, 2018, 10:05:21 PM »

looking really good Brian  :-))

desktoprover

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #194 on: April 06, 2018, 11:20:38 PM »

Nice work!


Can you share what kind/brand of clear coat you are using over the acrylic paint please 😀
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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #195 on: April 07, 2018, 07:50:36 AM »

Yes it's no secret. Normally this would get a satin clearcoat of ordinary Humbrol Clear enamel( dunno if you have Humbrol where you are, but its a model specific solvent based paint system)

However as I have used Vallejo acrylics on this ship, Vallejo recommend not using any other paint system directly on to their paint until it is sealed with their varnishes, gloss, satin or matt (satin is called semi gloss in the USA) first. However they have recently begun to replace their varnishes with polyurethane clears for extra hardness or wear resistance. So I am thinking of using just this new polyurethane clear entirely. According to the info on their website it is water based but best diluted for spraying purposes with their own make acrylic diluent. Clean up afterwards done with tap water.

I'm more and more liking the Vallejo system (rapidly replacing my Humbrol enamels), the paints are heavy in pigment so cover well, they dry fast so allowing second or third coats or alternate colours to be overpainted in 20-30 minutes - in some cases (warm conditions) even just a few minutes. No smell and any clean up is done with water. They can be diluted with water, but then coverage can be sketchy - much better to use their own thinner, then coverage on plastics or grp is fine.

desktoprover

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #196 on: April 07, 2018, 01:48:09 PM »

Ok, thanks for the information!  Yes we do have Humbrol paint in Canada.  When using Humbrol paint or clear coat, do you spray it with an airbrush?
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ballastanksian

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #197 on: April 07, 2018, 03:00:46 PM »


I can definitely second Brian's comments about Vellejo. I have always been a worry wart and undercoated in Humbrol enamels on wargames models to get a good key coat in between the slightly soft pewter and the acrylic which may go on thin in places (My rubbish bottle shaking  %) ) but it does have good pigment content.


I have only had a slight coverage problem with yellow (common with many yellows in many forms), but I learnt a tip from a figure painter for that so even that is cured.


With Vellejo, I have found the following:


1. The pigment settles and so, before use give it a blooming good shake. You will tell when the pigment is moving because the sound changes from a watery 'sloshy' sound, to a lumpier sound. Keep at it for a while longer.


2. Storing the bottles upside down is a good idea as well, to put the pigment near the nozzle, so even if you have shaken the bottle for Britain (or your nation  :embarrassed: ) and it hasn't completely mixed, you will bet paint and not carrier fluid.


3. The nozzle will bet clogged after a while and so, keep a needle or length of wire handy. I use the former or a piece of broken piercing saw blade handy for this job depending on which I have dropped into the maelstrom that is my bench.


3a. After a couple of years, the paint will start to go off, but the contents can still be used but you will have to remove cruddy paint from the whole nozzle piece. Remove the nozzle piece with a screwdriver and using an old pair of pointy tweezers, pull the piece of paint gunk out and dispose of. The lid will also benefit from periodic paint removal as this goes rubbery. Cleaning the lid and nozzle will reduce the latter complaint.


As a storage system, the Dropper bottle is good. I have never had a lid stuck on by old dry paint, I have never had the lid on my tinlet pop back up again because of excess paint build up, or the paint go dry prematurely.
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Brian60

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #198 on: April 07, 2018, 04:17:57 PM »

Ok, thanks for the information!  Yes we do have Humbrol paint in Canada.  When using Humbrol paint or clear coat, do you spray it with an airbrush?

All 3 methods depending on area to be covered. I use brush, airbrush and even what is known as a minigun - a crossover between airbrush and small paint gun, it has a cup size of 150ml. This can be used with the small air compressor that I have for the airbrush, but it is happier with the supply from my 100 litre compressor i.e the compressor is not always constantly cycling.

desktoprover

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Re: Stril Barents- a Multi role vessel
« Reply #199 on: April 07, 2018, 06:06:20 PM »

That is good painting information, thanks guys.  The painting process of my model boats as always been nerve racking.  Most of the time I get weird reaction between paints (rattle cans) eventhough I thoroughly follow the instructions and stick to one brand of spray paint.  The result is always a surprise!  The worst and most common reaction I get is the orange peel effect or paint wrinkle.  If only we could paint our models with acrylic paints, those problems would not exist anymore!  I'm wondering if a acrylic polyurethane clear coat would be durable and waterproof enough for the hull?
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