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Author Topic: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?  (Read 5167 times)

Pat Matthews

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Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« on: June 14, 2016, 01:36:08 PM »

Just opened the box on a MF Cruiser, and have a couple questions:


1. Asphalt is specified on some deck surfaces... would this be the same as the poured "linoleum" I'm familiar with from some WW2 naval ships? Or...?  Is it painted?


2. I'd like to "accurize" the stern frame and rudder... hope to make working pintles and gudgeons, with a removable/servicable rudder. I thought I knew how these things worked... but as I try to draw it up, I find I don't know! And my Google searches aren't turning up any good detail images. Any help?


Thanks...



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nemesis

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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 06:58:45 PM »

Normally there is a double flange, called a "palm" one on top of the rudder and the other connected to the steering gear, both being bolted together to facilitate construction and servicing. nemesis
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Pat Matthews

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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 07:32:00 PM »

Aha! And when the palm is unbolted, the upper arm can be swung out of the way, allowing the rudder to be lifted off the pintles... Now, if I can just accomplish that with #00-90 screws and nuts in 1:48...
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 09:56:45 PM »

Asphalt/bitumin, After cleaning and priming the first layer of 6mm is laid, this layer is of flexible compound. The second layer of 16mm is laid, of harder asphalt. Top layer is then scoured with fine sand. Not generally used in the accommodation. Hope that helps
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Pat Matthews

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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2016, 03:33:33 AM »

May have found an answer on my own book shelf- these pics from the 1920 Shipbuilding Cyclopedia.


Note space between rudder and frame, with only the pintle and gudgeon bosses reaching in to meet each other. The MF rudder fills in much of this space... which could easily be a real variation on this layout, won't know unless I see the real Cruiser in drydock!
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2016, 11:50:12 AM »

I can't manage the Cruiser in drydock but this is the best I can do. This is from the general arrangement drawings given in the P.N. Thomas book on British Steam tugs.

Jim

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Pat Matthews

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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2016, 01:06:32 PM »

Wonderful, thanks!
The image shows that the rudder body fills those gaps between the pintle/gudgeon pairs, unlike my 1920 freighter example... and this is the form that the MF part follows.
But I wonder if some larger vertical gaps aren't required than what is indicated here... one needs to be able to lift the rudder straight up a bit to clear the pintle pins...
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2016, 02:36:11 PM »

p.s., I clearly need a copy of the Thomas book... I have one on order now, thanks again.
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2016, 03:05:26 PM »

For a working model, the rudder will need to be oversize (possibly with an add-on extension piece) to work effectively. This is because of the effects of scale.
You may already know this, sorry if I am trying to teach you how to suck eggs.
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2016, 03:32:55 PM »

Yes, and again the MF part looks up to the task by virtue of being a bit wider than what the drawing shows.



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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 02:42:14 PM »

Another question, this time on the waterline. The kit plan and Thomas' published plan don't quite agree on the depth aft... and this makes quite a difference in the model ballasting and painting!


Submerging the rudder tube doesn't seem right to me, even if this does improve bollard pull...




Pictures- kit (above), Thomas plan (below).
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2016, 02:49:53 PM »

Yet another Q: In his Cruiser instructions, the late Mr. Hinchliffe mentions receiving a helpful packet of detail photos of the 1:1 scale Cruiser. Do we know if these (or similar) were ever published? Would be a wonderful reference...
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2016, 05:45:41 PM »

Pat,

If you look at these links you will find some images of the real vessel. Other you might try are shipspotting.com together with any of the other sites dedicated to tugs especially Clyde ones.

http://www.seatheships.org.uk/gallery/search.php?searchid=207630
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/search.php?searchid=4837242&cpage=3

LB
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2016, 07:13:18 PM »

Thanks, a number of helpful images on those sites... but as usual, somewhat distant "portraits". I'm imagining that Mr Hinchliffe's photos are on-deck details, which would be so nice to see!


It's a bit hard to see, due to waves and angles, but it looks like she usually rode a bit higher aft that what the kit plan calls for... I think I'll try to do similar...
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Pat Matthews

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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2016, 01:02:53 AM »

OK, another Q:


I may do the model as the dieselized Ardneil, with Carmet towing.
The picture below shows an emblem on the bridge bulwark. Doesn't appear to be Ardrossen's heraldry... anyone know what it could be?




Thx, Pat M
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2016, 01:20:40 AM »

Suggest that you contact Capt. Metcalf at Carmet: http://www.carmettugs.co.uk/

The Cruiser/Ardneil was their first vessel.

LB
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Pat Matthews

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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2016, 01:28:54 AM »

Thanks, have tried...


In looking at some of the new Carmet tugs, I see what looks like various coats of arms on each one...
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2016, 06:50:28 PM »

Is it me or is the Flag upside down?.
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Re: Cruiser Details- Asphalt & Rudder?
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2016, 07:02:06 PM »

Upside down is right >>:-(
Jack is not normally flown when a ship is under way.
Looks like they have had a go at dressing ship
for some occasion.


Ned
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