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Author Topic: Cheating or Fraud??  (Read 4171 times)

Brian60

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Cheating or Fraud??
« on: June 24, 2016, 10:28:20 am »

This was posted on a laser site that I am a member of, first of all you have to ask why, then ask ripoff, then ask is there no depth the chinese won't stoop to :}

Arrow5

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 10:42:46 am »

Seems like they have adopted ALL aspects of the capitalist system.   >:-o
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inertia

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 10:51:57 am »

No, Brian - there doesn't seem to be. And as from about 6.00am today you'll be paying a lot more it, too. Everything that the UK buys from ROC has to be paid in USD and the Pound has been a little weak against that currency (to put it politely) since that time. Much the same applies to anything we have to pay for in Euros.

If you're in the UK and you're planning a major purchase of imported items DO IT NOW.

oh - and fill your car's tank before fuel hits 1.50/litre - about the end of next week, I reckon.  O0

DM
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Brian60

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 11:00:55 am »

I know what you mean Dave. Yesterday I could exchange a 100 of sterling into Euro, today for the same amount it would cost me 107 {:-{ Okay not much when you are going down to the shops, but it can soon mount up.

More to the point. Brexit forces us into a position now of giving up British residency and taking on Spanish residency if we want to remain in our home <:( <:(

derekwarner

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 11:05:23 am »

Brian....why do they not show the rated voltage of the components in the larger rebadged black shell?....

Are farads not voltage dependent? >>:-(.................. they certainly were when Farrah Fawcett was in the slinky cloths....... O0

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NFMike

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 12:42:11 pm »

Colin Bishop

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2016, 12:50:47 pm »

Big queue at our local filling station just now. Bought all our holiday money earlier in the month so OK for the moment!

Colin
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2016, 12:57:09 pm »

This was posted on a laser site that I am a member of, first of all you have to ask why, then ask ripoff, then ask is there no depth the chinese won't stoop to :}




Why? For money and because they can get away with it.
Ripoff? Yes.
Is there no depth? For some of them, no there is no depths they won't plumb.
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inertia

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2016, 01:03:12 pm »

I know what you mean Dave. Yesterday I could exchange a 100 of sterling into Euro, today for the same amount it would cost me 107 {:-{ Okay not much when you are going down to the shops, but it can soon mount up.

More to the point. Brexit forces us into a position now of giving up British residency and taking on Spanish residency if we want to remain in our home <:( <:(

That's instant inflation of 7% for you, Brian. If UK VAT went up to 27% overnight there would be riots. Still, must steer clear of the politics; these are just its consequences.
As far as the Chinese capacitor is concerned I imagine it was a fraction of the price of a "domestic" one, and I always take the view that something which looks too good to be true generally is. Now try asking the Law to do anything about it! Double whammy.
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richald

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2016, 01:10:48 pm »

Just checked - price of oil is down 5.5% to 6% so it will probably only a very small change
when the new fuel stocks make it out of the refineries.

Richard
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inertia

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2016, 01:59:36 pm »

Petrol Retailers Association say 2-2.5p by the end of next week, so not as bad as 1.50/L...............yet.
DM
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Jonty

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2016, 02:23:55 pm »

  I seem to remember a former prime minister assuring us that this sort of thing 'does not affect the pound in your pocket'...
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inertia

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2016, 02:53:06 pm »

  I seem to remember a former prime minister assuring us that this sort of thing 'does not affect the pound in your pocket'...

Ironic that you should bring up Harold Wilson in a thread with this title............  8)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2016, 03:12:05 pm »

I was once on the same boat as dear Harold - he was a Scilly man....

Colin
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Netleyned

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2016, 04:33:15 pm »

His mate did a nice line in waterproof coats I seem to recall %)


Ned



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Colin Bishop

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2016, 04:34:23 pm »

Yes, and was made a Lord for it too!

Colin
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Netleyned

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2016, 04:38:26 pm »

And got the contract to clothe the Police Forces. >>:-(


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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2016, 04:40:44 pm »


Why? For money and because they can get away with it.
Ripoff? Yes.
Is there no depth? For some of them, no there is no depths they won't plumb.


Hi TT,

How is that sort of thing viewed by ROC manufactures?


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tigertiger

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2016, 06:30:34 pm »

Hi TT,

How is that sort of thing viewed by ROC manufactures?


The small manufacturers don't really care. They pretty much all view business as brutal.

The large manufacturers don't like it. They also have a problem with their IPR being ripped off. They are also concerned that 'Made in China' will continue to get a bad rap because of this cheating. Alibaba, Taobao, and TMall all have a problem with fake goods, I have seen one estimate of up to 90% of all goods sold. But why should the likes of Jack Ma worry if they are selling 10fold what they would if they only handle legit goods.

I also see that Amazon UK is now clamping down on ROC suppliers. This is to avoid being caught up in tax evasion issues https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/21/amazon-uk-reviews-chinese-traders-ahead-vat-clampdown

It is worth remembering what happened with Japanese products.
In the 60s 'Made in Japan' had a bad rap. Low quality and cheap knock-offs abounded. Everything was about being cheaper than everyone else, and this is not sustainable. Ever shrinking margins = ever shrinking profits.
In the 1970s companies like Sony and Datsun were starting to innovate, the only way to add increased value and make a profit. Other Japanese companies followed. Some companies were breaking into the European and American markets. Maybe we laughed at the neighbour who was driving a 'rice cooker'.

By the 1980s 'Made in Japan' was rapidly becoming synonymous with innovation, high tech, quality, and reliability. Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Suzuki, Yamaha, Mitsubishi, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Fujitsu. We no longer laughed at the guy driving a Jap car.
By the 1990s many of us were driving or had owned a Japanese car, and had Japanese hifi, video recorder, and TV.

We saw the same development pattern in Korea. I am sure a few of us have owned a Korean domestic appliance, if not a car.

China is, I believe, at the stage where they are beginning to innovate. The government here is pushing it. Chinese companies are buying up big western manufacturers and getting access to the expertise (this is not just copying technology despite what some cynics think). A Chinese company owns Volvo, they now own the in-house expertise of probably one of the worlds top auto industry innovators.

The bottom end of the market has always been about working harder and manufacturing cheaper, including cutting corners and cheating. One third of the worlds cigarette lighters are still made in one factory in China. Probably most of the food safety scandals have also occurred in recent years.
The top end of the market is now about innovation. 70% of the worlds drone market has been cornered by one Chinese manufacturer. They have just produced the worlds fastest supercomputer. China will probably land the next man on the moon.

I was asked this question a few years ago, maybe on here. At the time I answered that Chinese companies and workers are very industrious. The work harder and harder, but if they ever learn to work smarter, watch out. Well now they are starting to work smarter, and still cheap. And unlike Japan, China is not a small country.

A few years ago it cost more to by power tools here than in UK. Now thanks to the growth in Ecommerce, manufacturers are selling dirence to the public. Tools are cheaper now in China, and quality is better. I don't know what the cost of things are in the UK but let me give you one example. I have just installed a dust extraction system in my workshop. 2200w dust extractor, 25m of 100mm main ducting, 4 branches with all of the gates, adaptors, clips, accessories and smaller hoses. Total cost around USD 360/GBP 260, including all delivery. The heart of the unit is an industrial machine (not a shop vac with cyclone) that cost about USD 105/GBP 76.

Have I been cheated buying on line here. Yes, but only once. As I said in a previous thread. Using GoogleChrome, you can translate the Chinese Webpages for the products on Taobao, Alibaba, TMall, and read the comments (usual caveats apply here). You can also look at the volume of sales in China, which can be a good indicator of who is legit, but no guarantees.

Sorry for the long reply.
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inertia

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2016, 06:57:52 pm »

Many thanks for that "from the heart of the problem", Mark. At the moment it seems like someone here in the UK has taken all of the cards in the deck and thrown them up in the air. God knows how they will land. As long as Jack Daniels Old No7 doesn't get much above 30/litre I don't really mind............
DM
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2016, 07:25:57 pm »


Yes thanks TT, very interesting read!

Over here in the UK, ebay, Banggood, Tsmart, et al,  seem to be flooded with the cheap crap.
The problem we have is finding the non-crap stuff!


Just how do you make something in ROC, post around the world, for a price than price of the padded envelope?
!

eg. http://tinyurl.com/jrb5lxx
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2016, 02:14:58 am »

How do they do that?


Price of doorbell components, almost nothing here. I wanted to buy some resistors, they would only sell me a strip of 100 for about 50p. Transistors about 1/3 of one penny.
And the 99p, is that the start price? What is the buy now price?


Padded envelopes, the ones in the picture work out at about one UK penny each. This is buying online retail in 100s. If you buy trade in 1000s then less than that.
International postage in China is very cheap. Even airmail to Europe is about the same as UK first class, for small packages. For some electrical suppliers, a flat 50p postage to Europe.
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tigertiger

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Re: Cheating or Fraud??
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2016, 02:34:48 am »


Over here in the UK, ebay, Banggood, Tsmart, et al,  seem to be flooded with the cheap crap.
The problem we have is, finding the non-crap stuff!



I have seen some reviews, of know crap stuff, on Youtube.
Are there reviews or lists of bad suppliers on the 'sparky' websites?

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