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Author Topic: set up for Voith units  (Read 3124 times)

poll

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set up for Voith units
« on: July 15, 2016, 07:59:14 PM »

 
  Hi I would like a little advice please, I have 2x Graupner 460z  11.1 motors & 2x Fusion Hawk  50amp speedos. I would like to run them through a y lead, switched  on & off  with a rota type switch.
At the moment  I have the set up running, BUT one motor starts up well before the other is there any way to balance the speedos,  I have set them up with a programmer. This set up is for voith units.
Thanks in advance
John
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ray123

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2016, 07:21:12 AM »

hi john   have you tried swapping both motor & speed control around? 


im not a brushless   fan  myself! 


my voith set up is brushed motors with 2 speed controls on a y lead  i to have one that starts before the other
but i dont seem to affect  the performance of the units while running the boat


have you  run your voiths afloat  is the problem  noticeable  then ?


 
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rnli12

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2016, 09:34:22 AM »

Hi,
 
Do you have a picture of the set up of the control arms/servos etc on your voiths as I am just about to start mine this weekend.
 
Regards,
 
Rich
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Regards,

Rich

malcolmfrary

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2016, 11:06:29 AM »

The two ESCs, if programmable, will need to be programmed identically to give the same responses.  After that, you are relying on the motors and drive trains giving identical loadings.  While the ESCs are theoretically programmed to give identical responses, a difference in loading might make a difference between what they manage to actually do.  Transposing them should indicate whether there is a sluggish motor/drive or not.

Edit - coincidentally, this thread just reappeared on RCGroups - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293170&page=3 - reply #43 onwards, using more than one brushless motor on one ESC.
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poll

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2016, 08:48:51 PM »


  Hi Malc.  Both esc have been programed identically, when I start up one motor is running  1/4 speed before the second motor kicks
  in, would you recommend trying one esc for two motors, the escs are 50 amp.

  John
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Jerry C

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 09:06:44 PM »

No speed control really required on voiths as they run at max speed always. But you are using brushless motors which have to have speed controllers. As long as the motors turn at the same speed on maximum and in opposite directions then you're good to go. Unfortunately the brushed motors, Graupner speed 500E, are no longer available. With brushed motors you only need switches.
Jerry.

malcolmfrary

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 09:16:19 PM »

My personal preference is to avoid brushless motors full stop, the experiences that I saw in the link were just a bit of information that lodged in my mind saying that two on an adequate ESC would, loading being roughly equal, run in sync. 
As an ex-techie, I would swap over the motor connections to see if the problem goes with the motor or stays with the ESC.  Swapping the ESC inputs should be pointless, given that they both plug into a Y-lead.
Its a bit like fettling a stereo amplifier, always handy to have something that works to compare directly.
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poll

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2016, 09:48:06 PM »

No speed control really required on voiths as they run at max speed always. But you are using brushless motors which have to have speed controllers. As long as the motors turn at the same speed on maximum and in opposite directions then you're good to go. Unfortunately the brushed motors, Graupner speed 500E, are no longer available. With brushed motors you only need switches.
Jerry.
Hi Jerry thanks for your in put but the 500E is a little under powered when you are tug towing.

John
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poll

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2016, 09:51:27 PM »

My personal preference is to avoid brushless motors full stop, the experiences that I saw in the link were just a bit of information that lodged in my mind saying that two on an adequate ESC would, loading being roughly equal, run in sync. 
As an ex-techie, I would swap over the motor connections to see if the problem goes with the motor or stays with the ESC.  Swapping the ESC inputs should be pointless, given that they both plug into a Y-lead.
Its a bit like fettling a stereo amplifier, always handy to have something that works to compare directly.
Hi Malc. The problem stays with the ESC.
Thanks

John
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ray123

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2016, 10:04:28 PM »

speed controls work well on the voith units  there to fast running full speed  for fine /gentle  maneuvers  its also wasting battery power 


i had 2 500e motors in my voith tug  but upgraded to  graupner 600 bb turbos i have eletronize  forward only speed controls  this set up works very well 
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Jerry C

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2016, 10:25:30 PM »

1:1 scale voith tugs run at full speed. No varying rpm. No pitch=no load. What is the no load current draw on the 600 motors.  Got a rope caught on one unit and cooked a motor. Unable to obtain a pair of 500e so bought a pair of more powerful but same dimension motors which I was assured would be OK. They overloaded my esc so I ditched the esc and fitted a switch. Works fine but very powerful. No battery problems. On my tx I can adjust the throw of a servo for max deflection of lever so no problems with violent/ gentle manoeuvres.
Jerry.

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 10:46:52 PM »


   Hi Jerry.  what motors are you using?

   John
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ray123

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2016, 10:50:06 PM »

1;1 may run full speed   but im saying my boat performs better with a speed control im running 40 amp speed controls i had a rubber mat round on unit which  stalled the one unit  i got it in  ok no problems with motor or speed control


i dont know the no load speed draw  but i have a 12v 12amp jell thats more than enough running  time for me


do you know  what motors you were running jerry? the 600 im running are 17200rpm full speed
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poll

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2016, 11:05:03 PM »


     Hi Ray.  Thought I had located some 600 found they where out of stock  <:(

     John
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Jerry C

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2016, 11:13:10 PM »

Ray, I can't remember what they are and I'm not at home now so can't tell you. The windings on the speed 500Es are very fine with loads of turns, the windings on the replacements were much thicker with fewer turns so obviously drawing more current. Batteries are 2x 12V 7Ah. Run all day on the 500Es. But still ok on replacements. Was puzzled at the time why the esc didn't trip or the fuses blow. Would have saved me a load of heart ache. Also cost me 25 donation to the air ambulance as the divers from the local diving school wouldn't accept a penny off me for the rescue. The only towing I do is rescuing my mates boats forever breaking down.
Jerry.

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 06:41:32 AM »

     Hi Ray.  Thought I had located some 600 found they where out of stock  <:(

     John
there like tracking down  rocking horse ''do do''   if only they would still make them! 


i know brushless motors are the modern thing but i still like the brushed motors  they work for me :-))


jerry they sound like a race motor   so did your voith tug go down? sorry to hear that if it did
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Jerry C

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2016, 08:48:49 AM »

No, she didn't sink. I sail on Llyn Padarn, Llanberis and one of the mooring buoys for the the hire rowing boats had come adrift leaving the rope floating and invisible. She fouled on it. We have a diving school on the other side so asked if someone could swim out and retrieve her. It's too cold for us old digits to venture into!!
Jerry.

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 10:12:21 PM »


    Thanks Guys for you input I think I have cracked it, the motor is starting up only mily sec behind the other  :-))

    John
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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2016, 10:30:58 PM »


  Velox on test tomorrow will see how the brushless go.

  John
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ray123

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2016, 10:48:51 PM »

sounds good john  hope all go's well  :-))
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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2016, 10:54:10 PM »


   Hi Ray.  It works well more power then the 500E motor {-)  I put two barges on her & it pulled them OK, free running was good,
   no over heating.

  John
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ray123

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Re: set up for Voith units
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2016, 07:38:01 AM »

nice one john  looks well towing :-))
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