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Author Topic: Disgraceful Story...  (Read 1920 times)

Brian60

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Disgraceful Story...
« on: July 12, 2016, 12:58:48 pm »

This is from my local hometown newspaper, relevant because of where the hatch was going. But you do have to ask, a man with 40 years experience and he doesn't secure something weighing half a ton before working on it!

While you have to feel sorry for the injuries he suffered, you can only think about the amount of compensation he will be claiming even though he was self negligent.

I pity the 48 workers left at the company who may (or may not) lose their jobs if the company has to close down. One mans incompetance will have a knock on effect on an awful lot more people..

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/veteran-worker-crushed-by-falling-ship-s-hatch-at-royal-navy-contractor-point-engineering-in-hull/story-29500135-detail/story.html

dpbarry

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 07:55:36 pm »

Unfortunately, we now live in a society where people lay all the blame at someone elses door and take no responsibility themselves.


In saying that, I don't know the full story behind this particular story. Thing happen within firms and pressure is put on staff to deliver and corners are cut.


Declan
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plastic

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 08:31:37 pm »

I've spent the last 20 years in an incredibly dangerous job. In these types of industries, you cannot have a specific risk-assessment for each job you do because you don't often do exactly the same job twice. You need good people, you need good training and all the neccessary safety equipment and the COMMON SENSE to use it properly.

It reads as though he could have protected himself from the injury and either didn't think to do it or took a short-cut and didn't bother because it saved time or effort.
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tica

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 08:34:20 pm »

I don't know the full working law (HSEQ) or what it's called in UK but in general it's there to protect the workers and it is needed no doubt about that.

But when a experienced or well trained work do break the procedure they should also be accountable for that, this has been enforced in DK for some years now and it do make a difference

My father in-law was fined 5K as one of his forklift drivers worked a grinder from the top of a latter and fell down, fair enough but hey the man only had one arm and new he was not allowed to do any work on a latter, 2 year later this man would have been fined 50% of the company fine due to professional experience aka he should have know better.

And yes I do know that when a company is under pressure they also do put pressure on their works = poop happens and it shouldn't ! People feel that they have to bend the rules else they will loose their job and they cant survive that financially.

My approached as a auditor around the world (ISO9001, 13485 and CS8000) is that the most valuable assets a company have is their operators and you have to take care of them. The last 2 years i have issued more NC (Non Conformance) in CSR (Cooperate Social Responsibility) Than in the ISO standards, both in EU and Asia.
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TomHugill

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2016, 08:38:43 pm »

If he was properly trained and the company had the correct safe systems in place and he chose not to used them then the company has for filled its obligations under the health and safety at work act 1974 and should be fine, if not then other measures may well be taken.
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TomHugill

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 08:45:00 pm »

I've spent the last 20 years in an incredibly dangerous job. In these types of industries, you cannot have a specific risk-assessment for each job you do because you don't often do exactly the same job twice. You need good people, you need good training and all the neccessary safety equipment and the COMMON SENSE to use it properly.

It reads as though he could have protected himself from the injury and either didn't think to do it or took a short-cut and didn't bother because it saved time or effort.

You would still have to have an approved safe system and more general methodology/work package plan etc. A job may be fairly bespoke but similar equipment will be used on many different tasks. Sadly whilst all the stuff above will help you also need a safe way of working, going back to the hierarchy of risk control PPE is the last line of defence
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 10:27:39 pm »


The interesting part is, here is another example of unethical, but legal, company culture being implemented world wide.

Namely, to reduce or avoid fines etc for negligence, as the company was negligent even though the worker contributed to that negligence, they the company, threaten to sack every one and become bankrupt.

This happened here in Australia, with the company that destroyed a RAN patrol boat when it caught fire during maintenance.

All workers lost their jobs and the taxpayer footed the bill.

The root cause is, lack of fortitude by Governments, to enforce adequate insurance coverage, even though companies say they can't afford it.

Cuts into their profits.

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2016, 10:31:46 pm »

 
"In mitigation, Mr Parry said the firm, which has an annual turnover of about 2.8m, was "likely to call in the administrators on Monday of next week" if its overall financial penalty was more than 50,000."

Sounds like the company was already in financial trouble anyway!
Isn't this employee insurance is for?!
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gingyer

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 10:42:19 pm »

No company insurances will cover HSE fines.

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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 10:46:03 pm »

Absolutely.

It is accepted practice, amongst firms to have no insurance cover and carry their own liability.

Why, because the insurance premiums are horrendous and the risk ratio of an accident occurring favours the firm, so they only pay out when they have to and save sizeable amounts in insurance premiums.

Even becoming bankrupt is to their benefit as they walk away from it all.

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gingyer

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2016, 10:50:29 pm »

Absolutely.

It is accepted practice, amongst firms to have no insurance cover and carry their own liability.

Why, because the insurance premiums are horrendous and the risk ratio of an accident occurring favours the firm, so they only pay out when they have to and save sizeable amounts in insurance premiums.


I'm afraid you are totally wrong.
NO insurance company will cover you for an HSE fine. it is nothing to do with being tight.
I run my own company and I am not insured for HSE fines as it is not available
The only insurance I can get is public liability.


On one of my courses it was highlighted the point of this is that employers then take an active interest in
Health and Safety and no just shrug it off and let the insurance pick up the bill.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2016, 11:00:52 pm »


Sorry, I misread that, the '50,000' is the possible fine not compensation.  :embarrassed:
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derekwarner

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Re: Disgraceful Story...
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 11:37:36 pm »

I could start a story where the Commonwealth of Australia delayed compensation to an employee injured at a Naval Dockyard Weapons Facility....

The delay was caused principally by the fact that there were no witnesses' who could substantiate how an apprentice could sever an Achilles Tendon when wearing Government supplied  safety shoes, sox and trousers.

His Foreman was instructed to seek the guidance of the Commonwealth Solicitor in Chifley Square, as the Dockyard Combined Unions Solicitors suggested that if the Government delayed compensation further, it would bring charges of negligence against his Foreman as he himself was responsible for the safety of the employee

After a protracted Court case, Compensation was awarded, the Department did not admitted liability however the Foreman was exonerated ..................

I did loose more than a little sleep over that incident............Derek
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Derek Warner

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