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Author Topic: Harmony of the Seas  (Read 4242 times)

Brian60

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Harmony of the Seas
« on: July 14, 2016, 07:05:04 am »

There is no way that I could take a holiday on one of these ships.

It just reminds me of cages of animals in a pet shop, don't people value their personal space anymore?.....

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 07:31:43 am »

 
                             :o
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016, 12:59:18 pm »

The whole point of all those balconies is supposed to be to give people personal deck space but I agree that going to sea on an apartment block with attached shopping mall mounted on a barge doesn't appeal to me either.

On the plus side you are not likely to get robbed, abducted, blown up or shot as now seems to be the case in many previously popular holiday destinations.

Colin
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NFMike

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2016, 02:12:51 pm »

The whole point of all those balconies is supposed to be to give people personal deck space but I agree that going to sea on an apartment block with attached shopping mall mounted on a barge doesn't appeal to me either.

On the plus side you are not likely to get robbed, abducted, blown up or shot as now seems to be the case in many previously popular holiday destinations.

Colin
To be fair, those accommodations probably aren't much different from a lot of resort hotels and the balconies are probably more private than they look. Once away (as that top picture was probably taken at an arrival or departure) I expect it isn't as crowded as that photo makes it look either. The bottom one appears to be a staged crew shot.

Shipmate60

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2016, 03:01:31 pm »

While still at sea I know the MCA (Marine and Coastguard Agency) were looking at how to evacuate one of these monsters of some 8000+ souls.


Bob
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2016, 06:31:09 pm »

Quite right that the balconies are similar to mass market hotels - I wouldn't want to stay in one of them either!

Colin
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Nemo

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 11:07:53 am »

YUCK!!
Unlike QM2 eh Colin? :} 2 days to board! O0
Bob.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 12:48:01 pm »

Bet you can't wait! We are just about to set off for the ferry from Prince Edward Island to Nova Scotia en route to Cape Breton, might pass over you on the flight home on Tuesday.

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 06:26:22 pm »

Unlike the Cunard vessels, which are full North Atlantic Winter load line compliant I think you will find these vessel are not so I have been told.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2016, 12:42:02 am »

Only QM2 is designed as a liner. The other two are standard cruise ship designs although the Queen Vic at least has the bow beefed up a bit to facilitate the odd transatlantic crossing.

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2016, 09:54:46 pm »

Hi Colin, not talking about design of vessel use, but its class classification and any amendments as such, like Lloyds class 1A and class 7 for general cargo vessels.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 11:54:05 pm »

We have recently returned from a 17 night cruise from Sydney to Fremantle, across the top of Australia aboard the Dawn Princess. We struck an east coast low pressure system the first night, with a force 10 to 11 gale and 10 metre waves. Eight years ago we were on board the old QE2 in a similar gale after leaving Japan, and the difference in the ride between the two ships was very noticeable. QE2 is a liner, designed for Atlantic crossings and coped with the conditions very well, whereas Dawn Princess is a cruise ship and thumped into the swells rather than cutting through them. Fortunately, neither my wife nor I suffer from sea sickness, but over half the nearly 2000 passengers were sick as a result of the conditions. At 77000 GT and 261 metres long the Dawn Princess is not little, but by comparison with some of the monsters being built now it seems small. Harmony of the Seas is almost 227,000 GT and 362 metres long, a full 100 metres longer than Dawn Princess, and almost three times as heavy. It also has accommodation for more than three times the number of  passengers - I have no desire to travel on it.


Peter.
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dodes

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 04:06:54 pm »

Just saying what is the scantlings and class as I have been led to believe that some of these huge cruise boats are weather restricted. But what is causing some  worry above all else is how to do you cope with a catastrophic accident mid Atlantic or Pacific with possibly 8,000 people in the sea, no nation has the means to rescue such a number quickly and it may take several days for any vessel to close.
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NFMike

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2016, 06:50:08 pm »

Most people will survive several days in a lifeboat or liferaft until picked up. And cruise liners aren't likely to stray far off the beaten track - there's likely to be quite a lot of shipping using their route.  I don't see it as any different to any other passenger ship, just the numbers are bigger.
You could level similar accusations at trans-oceanic air travel; though there being survivors to pick up in that case is perhaps less likely.

Captain Flack

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 11:41:59 am »

Prophets of doom and gloom.  Having travelled on some of these "monsters" as they have been referred to, they are not at all like they have been mad out to be in some of these posts.  In fact on some of them you will be hard pressed to see other passengers on the accommodation decks.

If you're that worried about being picked up should it sink, don't travel on it!!!!
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BarryM

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2016, 12:40:37 pm »

Most people will survive several days in a lifeboat or liferaft until picked up. And cruise liners aren't likely to stray far off the beaten track - there's likely to be quite a lot of shipping using their route.  I don't see it as any different to any other passenger ship, just the numbers are bigger.
You could level similar accusations at trans-oceanic air travel; though there being survivors to pick up in that case is perhaps less likely.

The problem does not lie in survival once LSA have been reached but marshalling large numbers of mostly untrained, probably panicky and possibly unfit passengers at the muster points and then physically transferring them to the lifeboats/rafts.  I would not travel on these vessels.

Is anyone aware of realistic exercises attempting to replicate the numbers who would be involved in such a scenario and what the results were?

Barry M
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NFMike

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2016, 10:53:49 pm »

The problem does not lie in survival once LSA have been reached but marshalling large numbers of mostly untrained, probably panicky and possibly unfit passengers at the muster points and then physically transferring them to the lifeboats/rafts.  I would not travel on these vessels.

I think that problem kicks in at a few hundred passengers. It's certainly not a new concern.
What is your cut-off passenger population for travelling then?

BarryM

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2016, 08:20:49 am »

If you are going to set a cut-off of minimal risk, then all those who would travel would be trained, professional seamen in good physical and mental condition. That obviously is a non-starter and not how the real world functions; an element of risk has to be accepted as in any walk of life or society simply does not function.

If you accept that risk to life grows in line with numbers carried, I wonder has it reached the limit of acceptability or passed it? Most passengers will have wittingly - or unwittingly - accepted the risk and fortunately marine incidents affecting cruise vessels are few. If you are happy with that then by all means travel by cruise liners with huge passenger numbers. You will almost certainly come home unharmed and may have enjoyed the experience.

My question is what risk assessment is performed to satisfy the regulatory authorities and what trials of a realistic nature have been performed to demonstrate the Safety Case is valid? Evacuation is the (a?) worst case scenario and safeguards are put in place to minimise the possibility of this but cannot wholly eliminate it.

I have spent all my career in ships or shipping and have seen some rather dodgy data used to support a safety case. Do we have grounds to believe all is well in the cruise industry?

BM
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Brian60

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Re: Harmony of the Seas
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2016, 11:38:53 am »

As Barry says, I wonder what risk assessments were made in the case of emergency evacutation? All new airports have to conduct evacuation tests using volunteers to populate it first - and they are not always successful at the first attempt! This is also spreading to new shopping malls as well, although this is a voluntary action unlike airports where it is legislated.

So if an airport has to do it why not a cruise ship?
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