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Author Topic: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961  (Read 831 times)

Ferryfan

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Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« on: February 26, 2020, 12:02:22 AM »


I am building a model of this vessel and starting on the focsle. I think I have most of the fittings on it sorted out but there are a few which have defeated me. The plan and picture attached are the best information I have. There are 6 white vertical cylinders in a line aft of the anchor-handling apparatus. Any idea what they are? The outer ones could be vents or windlass controls, but the inner ones?
Also, between the two lines of anchor chain is something painted white. Any idea what that is?



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derekwarner

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2020, 01:03:10 AM »

Attach or insert an image of the Plans or Drawing of the components


Anchor chains have painted individual links at certain spacing.......this is to confirm how much anchor chain is payed out


Older Naval vessels displayed white painted anchor chain on deck from the winch drum to the inside of the hawser pipe, or just to the connection to the anchor


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Ferryfan

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2020, 02:34:16 AM »

Pictures attached
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derekwarner

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2020, 05:10:19 AM »

It appears that the Empress of Canada was the 3rd ship of the Class built by Vickers Armstrong in Newcastle - the earlier builds were the Empress of Britain and the Empress of England


The WEB site http://www.liverpoolships.org/empress_of_canada_of_1961.html has many images of each of the three vessels, however The Empress of Canada is the only example to display those 4 x angled white drums


Again, the angled mounting of these drums?, must have some functionality however are a mystery


I find no evidence to support it, but they could be roller bollard drums for flag lines??


Each of the vessels in original build show 2 + 2 Sampson Post hoists [cargo wire cranes] at different deck levels over the focsle , however in latter age images these have been removed


The only part as you have marked ??? is in your lower photograph, is a long white lever that is attached to a control box........the lever is supported in a white vertical plate arrangement, further aft of the control box


A model of the Empress of Canada is shown in a WEB page, however this model does not appear to display the 4 x angled white drums

Derek
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Derek Warner

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raflaunches

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2020, 09:45:37 AM »

Isnít the white box marked with ??? a hatch possibly leading to a chain locker? Warships have a similar Ďboxí in this position and I believe it to be the access to a chain locker. The white arm could be a davit for lifting equipment in that area.
Might be wrong but thatís what it looks like to me.
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RST

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2020, 09:54:04 AM »

I think it's the hatch down to the Chain locker. You can see on the plans there's a hatch on each of the decks below in the same position right down. I think the white "lever" is to the side on other pictures. It kind of looks a bit like a small davit.




Not worked out what the other 4 things are yet though.
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derekwarner

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2020, 10:37:27 AM »

Wood from the trees? :D  ....... yes, 100% the open man-hole sized hatch cover hinged at the fwd end  :-)) ......
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Derek Warner

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2020, 12:18:55 PM »

The white pillars might indeed be control consoles. The photo below is of a ship of similar vintage and although the controls are different in type the layout is very similar.

Colin
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John W E

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 04:26:13 PM »


hi there
have you tried the website - Tyne Built ships - there is a lot of information on their about the Empress of Canada.   Also, get in touch with the South Tyneside Archives - I believe they may have a lot of plans and they may just have the plans for this ship along with some photographs.

http://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/E-Ships/empressofcanada1961.html
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John W E

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 05:03:58 PM »

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Ferryfan

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2020, 05:33:40 PM »

Thanks for all the feedback.
There seems to be a consensus that the item between the anchor chains is an open hatchway that leads to the deck below housing the windlass and capstan machinery.
I have also had feedback that the 6 vertical cylinders are 'cable brakes', which I take to mean control stands for windlass and capstans, but it's still not clear why 6 and not 4.
The cost of plans of the ship from the Tyne and Wear Archives is prohibitively expensive for a retired model builder. I emailed them recently to ask if they had photos of the deck, but no response so far.
The plan that I have included here was obtained from the 'tynebuiltships' website.
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dodes

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2020, 08:25:25 PM »

Looking at last pic looking forward, the large wheels are the brake controls and the two inner posts look like power control for each cable windlass.
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mikelimajuliet

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2020, 11:23:35 PM »

What a lovely ship. I hope you are going to have a thread of the build?
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John W E

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2020, 08:11:00 AM »


Hi ya there Ferryfan


I noticed the last link I put on doesn't work - so later on I will try and put a workable link on.    Basically it lets you know how many photographs the Archives have of this ship and also the archives were going to charge £50 for a CD for the plans of a cargo ship I intend to build which, I think would cost me roughly about £20 at 1:96 scale, roughly about 70 inches long model - I don't think that is too bad considering the Maritime Museum charged well over £200 for the HMS Exeter plans (1939).     


I don't think they are that expensive in comparison to the Maritime Museum.



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Ferryfan

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2020, 04:21:04 PM »

Hi John,
In my last contact with the museum, I was told that the cost on CD of the five plans I wanted totalled GBP230. I settled for one, the profile. I have also tried Lloyds Register, Merseyside Maritime Museum, Canadian Pacific, Carnival, Canadian Pacific Historical Association (mainly railways) and Canadian Museum of Technology. It seems Tyne and Wear have the only information.
I am building the model based on the profile, plus information mainly from the 'tynebuiltships' and 'liverpoolships' websites.
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RST

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2020, 10:32:17 PM »

I think we've all been looking at the same things on google to be honest!  I tied looking through all the later names etc.
That hatch to be honest was a no-brainer as it goes right down on each deck to the chain locker on the sketchy deck plans.

For the conundrum of capstan controls since the free plans are available albeit pixelated (not that the real ones might go into that detail anyway) I did wonder whether the central 4 were something like "telegraphs" through to the deck below which is marked as machinery space for these?  The outer 2 though you can see clearly on the blurry pics don't even come up to more than a couple of feet high from deck.  Perhaps the photo scan misses the horizontal handweel above?  It looks a different control from the centre 4 from the photos anyway.
Re: Drekwarner's grainy photo of a website which claims to have captured this vessel fantastically.  I despute them saying they concentrate on detail rather than others -they look a bit generic and very average to me!  But they look about right for normal display models to be fair.
Re: Costs for plans.  It doesn't seem that bad to be honest.  I hate this also, but it seems resonable in terms of man-hours and effort etc.  Just a problem for us modelers.  Even when I was on the ship conversion, I needed something like 20 fire and safety plans printed at A2 -we had a plotter but I was not allowed to use it so it went through the agent at £25 a print each plus mark-up and labour costs
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Ferryfan

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Re: Focsle deck gear - Empress of Canada 1961
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2020, 08:29:08 PM »

Hi RST,
It can certainly be argued that the plan prices don't seem to be that bad, but they are way more expensive than a few years ago, many times more than inflation can explain (and not just the Tyne & Wear Archives).
I have also relied on Vic Smeed's plan for the "Empress of Britain", especially for the body plan. With hindsight I might have done better purchasing the 'Canada's' body plan instead of the profile; adapting the 'Britain' lines for the bulbous bow and increased bow flare of the 'Canada' proved to be quite tricky.
Another puzzle yet to be solved is the colour of the steel decks and all of the deck fittings.
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