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Author Topic: A very interesting Salvage operation  (Read 2369 times)

Stavros

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2016, 10:08:01 PM »


 Very interesting!  :-))
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davidjt

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 09:25:56 AM »

Amazing what they can do today with all this technology at there hands


Davidjt
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BFSMP

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 09:41:59 AM »


I shall watch that again, absolutely fascinating.


It's a pity a TV documentary wasn't made about it as I love to watch programmes like that.


Jim.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 10:49:49 AM »

Amazing what they can do today with all this technology at there hands
Davidjt

..... apart from preventing two gigantic ships, travelling relatively slowly from crashing into each other on a clear day!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Baltic_Ace  -  " with a cargo of about 1,400 Mitsubishi cars" - does this make it the biggest car crash in history?!
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Jerry C

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 11:26:46 AM »

The thing is Martin, if you could see that area on the chart you would possibly appreciate the situation a little bit better. The traffic separation zone concentrates many ships from, if memory serves me well, six directions into a very small area. We have always thought it was an accident waiting to happen. I believe the initial salvage tug actually hit the wreck. We are bombarded with radio messages from various VTS traffic controllers, some of which are contradictory and frequently to the "wrong vessel". Radars and gps systems give us positions, courses and distances to 5 decimal places giving the false impression of accuracy. Add to this time wasted completing a nonsensical paper trail of ticked boxes et al when we really should be looking out of the windows. Try doing six on, six off day in day out with possibly two ports in a day in one of the busiest areas in the world, tired to the bone because we have to run big ships to the minimum safe manning schedule devised by desk bound, ex seafarers living in the past. It's easy for armchair navigators to criticise but really, they have no idea. I'm not being nasty, just trying to give the heads up.
Jerry.

Martin [Admin]

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2016, 12:33:14 PM »


Oh, totally agree!  But surely normal 'rules of the road' should override coastguard instructions .... and by looking out the window....  {:-{

( Obviously I have no experience in this area... but my armchair resides in a very authoritative position! )


http://www.odin.tc/news/read.asp?articleID=1605

Web site VesselFinder made an animated reconstruction of the collision between Corvus J and Baltic Ace based on AIS positions.
The short clip presents a clear picture of what happened.
http://www.vesselfinder.com/news/742-EXCLUSIVE-VIDEO-The-collision-between-BALTIC-ACE-and-CORVUS-J-AIS-Historical-Data

Corvus J didnít give way to Baltic Ace as she should in accordance with The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea and kept on her course.
Baltic Ace was too late with her action to avoid the collision.
Corvus J with her bulbous bow ripped the car-carrier open like a tin can.
Car-carries with their huge cargo decks need not much time in case of deck flooding, to get unstable and capsize.
Voytenko Mikhail

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Jerry C

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2016, 02:40:25 PM »

Hi Martin, that's what I'm trying to say about armchair navigators and shoreside pundits. It's no good picking what suits your article writers from the collision regs. They have been carefully honed, if you like, over many years, to cover every possible occurrence. They are written in a language to remove all ambiguity. In distant times we learned them word for word parrot fashion. We practised them ad infinitum until they were second nature to us. But times, ships and manning levels have changed. And therefore, rightly so, the regs have changed but education hasn't. In keeping with the tradition that it is always the master who bears the responsibilityfor whatever happens there is a rule in the collision regs that says if one vessel is directed by these rules to keep out of the way the other shall maintain her course and speed. It goes on to say "when from any cause the latter vessel finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give way vessel alone, she also shall take such action as will best avert collision." All that is all well and good in the open sea. But bring in a third or fourth vessel and restrict sea room and things become a lot more complicated. Add a pilot station and VTS from three countries, can you see where I'm going with this?  In the " old" days when entering or leaving port or in areas of high traffic situations, we would go on standby, change the engine from heavy oil to gas oil so it could be manoeuvred, put a man on the wheel, a cadet on the telegraph, a seaman on lookout, the officer of the watch doing the navigation, a cadet keeping the movement book and the old man giving the orders. The mate and the carpenter on the fo'c'sle standing by the anchors.
Some ships today don't have that many crew aboard, we had 67 crew on my first trip.
The coast guard dont run VTS  thank god, but are not the  guy at the front. Usually it's just me and if I'm lucky a helmsman. I'm dealing with pilots, port control and VTS not to mention my tow, if I've got one, and making sure I'm in the right place at the right time. Everyone on different vhf channels and watching channel 16. Can't hear myself think most of the time.
If you can find an image of the chart in the area where the accident occurred you may see what I'm trying to get across.
Jerry.

Martin [Admin]

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 02:50:45 PM »


Just arguing the toss Jerry! 

 'What do I know!  ok2
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dave301bounty

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2016, 07:25:17 PM »

and I was in the engine room when that greek ship hit us in 1968 .with the famous dog on the wheel , {-) it was not funny but the place is a no go for beginers. {:-{
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NFMike

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2016, 09:41:59 PM »

..... apart from preventing two gigantic ships, travelling relatively slowly from crashing into each other on a clear day!!!


It was dark actually.

Technology doesn't always help unfortunately. When radar became common around 19?? there were not a few what came to called "radar assisted collisions". I'm not sure they ever went away.

NFMike

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2016, 09:43:19 PM »

^^^ Why is it that whenever we quote one of your posts it includes our post in the quote? (It actually removes the 'end quote' code.)  >>:-(

Martin [Admin]

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Re: A very interesting Salvage operation
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2016, 10:22:33 PM »


Fixed!
    :kiss:
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