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Author Topic: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th  (Read 33897 times)

crabbersnipe

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HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« on: November 03, 2016, 04:57:41 pm »

I thought I'd try my hand at my own full framed and planked model for a change, rather than procure a GRP hull off the shelf.
Have full a full frames and sheer line drawings for a Leander class GP frigate, and am considering one of the first batch of narrow-beam and gun Leanders, probably in their mid 70's guise.
Am still considering the name of the exact vessel, as I am hesitating between a Variable Depth Sonar ship or not - no two Leanders were alike. I have decided that my model will have a rounded stem, as again, some of the later variants had a straight stem - I would be indebted to anyone who could provide me with a list of ships that fall in either category, as this is only partially documented.
As I have a good set of photographs of HMS Argonaut, I will temporarily dub this build as this vessel, but I may still change the name as I go along.

The photographs show the first set of frames, as well as a copy of the ship's plan. I am working off the Jecobin drawings, which are really good.
The frames are cut from 2 mm plywood, but it is clear that the main frames will need to be thicker and am doubling them up so as to get to 3 and 4 mm thickness. I am using the thinner ones a in-between supports along the hull.
As this model may become R/C, I have also been cutting out the insides of the frames to allow for motors and batteries.

This is a bit of a quantum leap in terms of my skills, never having tried a fully planked hull, and especially not one with as may convex and concave lines as a Leander but hey ho, can only fail once :-) . Once planked I intend to cover everything with GRP, which will be another first.

The goal is to have the hull finished towards the end of winter.

Will keep you posted, and will no doubt be asking you forum members for tonnes of advice between now and then !

Eric
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tghsmith

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 07:02:26 pm »

a flat and true building board, extend all frames and profiles to a common line, build using the up side down method..



this was for a mold plug but the method is the same for a framed hull, just add some pre-cut sections at deck line on the frames..
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 09:17:32 pm »

Thanks and impressive looking model. Is she a battleship of the QE class ?
Question: how will you be removing the model from the building board once the hull has been fully planked ? With a hacksaw ?


cheers
E
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rnli12

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2016, 05:51:39 am »

Hi.
 
Looking at that profile is it really a Leander class of the 1960s era? or heavily disguissed?
 
Rich
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Regards,

Rich

derekwarner

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 07:11:56 am »

Yes......the images from tghsmith with the tumble home  %) .....may be the one eight-ship Leander class of Light Cruisers operational from 1933 ....

Eric indicated a Leander Frigate which are a later build Class from the 60's to the 90's ............... Derek
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Derek Warner

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Netleyned

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 07:46:39 am »

More likely even older Derek.
The hull plug is not named.
Just shown as an example
of plank on frame.
Not neccessarily a Leander at all.


Ned
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John W E

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 10:39:20 am »

More likely even older Derek.
The hull plug is not named.
Just shown as an example
of plank on frame.
Not neccessarily a Leander at all.


Ned
Is it not the USS MINNEAPOLIS

http://temposenzatempo.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/the-navy-band-of-uss-minneapolis.html

john
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tghsmith

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 12:27:09 pm »

quick drawing of a sample frame for a planked or sheeted hull(photos were for a plug hull for a mold, same idea) once the hull is planked it can be "cut away" at the dotted lines.. a razor saw or japaneese type pull saw make this fast work.. I "spot weld" the frame bases to the building board with a hot glue gun, fast, easy and with a little heat (heat gun or wife's hair dryer) and a scraper the board is ready for the next hull..when marking out frames make allowances for hull and deck material thickness.. the baseline and the centerline must be dead square..

more frames are better than thicker frames (vesuvius)

the common baseline handles an uneven deck line..

and yes, tumblehome  is fun...

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John W E

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 05:55:54 pm »

Hi Eric

May I suggest you read through some of the articles which are in the Master Build section of this forum.   Amongst them, you will find, several articles dedicated to helping with plank on frame using a building board.   Although the articles aren't directly linked to building a warship style of hull - the method can be transferred straight over. 

There are several thoughts around using building boards - for some reason - some folk like to build a hull, keel down on the building board - supported with blocks (like building a life-sized vessel).   Using this particular method, we normally have to install the main deck, as well as all of the frames, to make sure the framework stays rigid whilst building it.   

The other method is, obviously, where we build the hull upside down on the building board which has (in my eyes) several advantages..   The main one is - it holds the frames all rigid and in line without the need of fitting a deck - so, we can basically plank it straight away.  The golden rule really for this is - do not remove the hull from the building board, until it is finished as far as it has been fibre glassed or whatever, smoothed and painted.  Even with the building board - you can mark off the waterline, using the building board as a baseline - because under normal circumstances the waterline will be parallel to the building board.   

I know one of the things you are concerned about is fastening the frames to the building board.   There are several methods to this as well.  My chosen method is to use one inch square planed blocks of wood, which will go across the full length of the building board - to which the frame is located and then the block is located and screwed to the building board in the correct position.

There are also those who like to use a commercially available steel square strap, the type which is used when you use 2 pieces of wood joined together at 90 degrees, you see them in hardware shops.   

I tend to avoid gluing frames to the building board - as when we are pinning and securing planks the frames, if you hit them too hard, they can break away.  You have then to somehow secure them and hope they are in line.

I have put several links on for you - one of them is HMS York; which I built several years ago.   

What I suggest is have a look to see how I have located it on the building board and also how I only needed 5 mm thick plywood for the frames.   This was extremely good quality plywood - it was expensive - nearly 30 a sheet measuring 4ft x 1ft - but to me worth it - cos it is guaranteed not to have any voids in the centre - and also, the faces of the material are pure and honest birch - very little splitting when cutting it.

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15073.0.html

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7947.0.html

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13888.0.html

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,33734.0.html

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,354.50.html
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dodes

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2016, 08:23:33 pm »


Years long ago, I remember when walking through the last Leander class accommodation, there used to be on several of them models of their namesakes pre WW1. I do not know which warehouse they where sent to when the vessels were scrapped, but they were very impressive in detailed, about 4 to 5 feet in length. But that hull/plug looks really impressive, look forward to seeing the finished model.

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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2016, 09:01:34 pm »

Thanks for alL the photographs, tips and hints from all of you - very useful and this will come in handy as I progress.
Am trying to upload some snapshots of where I currently stand with the Argonaut, but she is indeed the 1960s Leander class frigate.
I will be building her in her original gun configuration, prior to the Exocet conversion.


Have decided on a keel-up, upside-down approach, with the frames fixed to a square block of wood at a sufficient height to allow for the raised forecastle and giving me the sheer I need.


Have been taking photographs during my build using my mobile phone, and despite having compressed & zipped them to more manageable proportions they still seem to exceed the 300K limit for posting on the forum ? Does anyone know how to resolve this ?


Bluebird, I clearly stand to learn an awful lot from your model of HMS York, and would be very obliged if you could elaborate a little more once I hit the glass fibre stage - noticed you have also covered your planked hull, this will be another first for me...but first, trying to complete my planking.


Cheers & thanks again to all.

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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 09:25:58 pm »

Some snapshots
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2016, 09:29:02 pm »

And a few more
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2016, 09:31:51 pm »

Managed to resize - hope you will enjoy


E
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2016, 09:35:46 pm »

Last batch for today
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2016, 09:04:11 pm »

Bit of an update, latest work - some spots will require quite a bit of putty as can be seen.
Also did some partial sanding on the bow section.
Eric
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2016, 11:51:21 pm »

Beautiful hull lines crabber :-))......if you intend to glass the internals, best leave the external sanding until that is completed

The glass reinforcement provides great rigidity and near eliminates any spring in the planking whilst sanding

Derek
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2016, 09:33:36 am »

Hi Derek,


Thanks for this and yes, a good idea - it might mean I'll have to remove the hull from its support and turn it over, in order to do the inside first. Am a little reluctant to undertake this, but there certainly is merit in your suggestion, it will undoubtedly strengthen things considerably.


As far as the outside is concerned, what would you suggest to be the next step - it is advisable to apply a primer coat first, before putting on the glass fibre, and is the sanded hull best left just a little rough ? Or is it better to sand things as smooth as possible ? Does it matter a great deal in terms of adhesion ?


Any advice from forum members is welcome in this respect, I expect the planked hull to be finished towards the end of next week and have never undertaken any glass coating before. Would hate this to ruin my gracious hull forms :-)


Thanks
E
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2016, 10:47:31 am »

Hullo again Eric ....a few observations  %)

1. Planking is ~~ 3mm thick?
2. We see Z-Epoxy packaging , but are you using a polyurethane glue for the planking?
3. I am unsure of the wood specie you are using for the planking

The close spacing between your hull frames shows a very uniform fairing....this will minimise the amount of sanding to achieve flatness or smoothness of the hull surface  :-))

So whilst I built a number of cedar planked hulls of similar length, I will stand aside here as we have many members with far more experience with glass fibre mat/tissue and resin coatings who will be able to offer comment....[there will also be a number of threads in our MBM archives]

I look forward to seeing your hull progress

Derek
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2016, 11:25:14 am »

Hi Derek,


Most grateful for your help and advice, I stand to learn a lot still, this is only my first ever attempt.


In reply to your questions:


- planks are only 1 mm in thickness (although have been using 4mm, 6 mm and 10 mm widths for some sections)
- the strips are all obechi, very easy to work with
- the Z-epoxy tube in the background was used for my attempt at glass coating the funnel, but in terms of glue being used it is ordinary white wood glue (not sure if I picked the waterproof variant, come to think of it now !!)


Hadn't thought of cedar, suppose that works equally well ?


Must confess I am enjoying this whole planking exercise, am already thinking of another hull once this one is completed.
The main thing is to try and stick to maximally two planks every night, so as not to rush it. Need to tweak some of the frames quite considerably in certain spots (file/ sand down some, add a strip to others) - one of the lessons learned is to draft up a proper sheer line and set of 'corrected' drawings, once this hull is completed.


A commercially available GRP hull will probably save time and expense but the satisfaction obtained by building everything from scratch is quite pleasing.


Thanks again
E
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John W E

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 05:32:02 pm »

hi there Eric

Here is my suggestion of the way I normally do fibreglassing on a hull - this been covered many times as a topic on different methods of doing stuff.

Your hull is 1:96 scale I notice, which in my calculations works out at a model of 46 inches in length - I had a rough count and I think you may have about 31 frames - this should give you a frame spacing of roughly about 1.5 inches to 1.75 between centres of frames.  This is quite close and I wouldn't think you would require any reinforcement in the internal of the hull, due to the spacing - the structure should be quite strong.

My method of fibreglassing the hull:

First of all, I give the whole of the hull a light sanding - filling in any gaps with spare pieces of timber and sanding rough edges off.  I fill all large gaps with car body filler/P38 from the care autoshop.   Sand the hull smoothly, but, do not worry too much about humps and bumps in the hull as yet.  Give the hull a full coating of polyester resin with hardener mixed.  No matting is used as yet.    Work the resin into all of the joints and into all of the planking.   Allow this to harden off; this procedure bonds the planks together and begins to seal the hull.  Find the most coarse wet n dry you can find - normally I buy a number 60 sheet of wet n dry.   

Give the whole of the hull a good rub down and you will remove a good bit of the resin you have put on.

When you have finished rubbing down you can fill all the humps and bumps again with car body filler.   When you sand down this time, ensure you use sanding blocks - don't use your hands to hold the paper - wrap the paper around sanding block and sand the hull using this method.

When this is all done and the hull is nice and smooth - but not too smooth - I use fibre glass tissue matting; not the woven roven but fibre glass tissue matting - where the bond in the matting will dissolve when you use polyester resin with it.   The bonding in the matting WILL NOT dissolve if you use epoxy resin.   You have a chance of ending up with a mess.

Now, cut the matting into say 4 pieces - 2 per side - put them to one side - ensuring you know where they fit on the hull - because some places you are going to have to cut Vs into the matting to get it to fold nicely around the hull shape.

Coat the hull with fibre glass resin and hardener mixed and allow to go tacky. 

Put another coating of resin on - say - starting at the bow and apply your first bit of matting and stapple the resin through the matting using a stiff brush or a small ring roller.   This procedure is continued all the way around the hull.   Apply resin, then apply matting on the top working the resin through.    When this has all set - give the hull a further 2 coatings of polyester resin.

It will look like a ploughed field, but, this is where time and patience sets in.    You start off with your coarse wet n dry, smoothing the hull and working your way through the various grades of wet n dry until you end up using the smooth wet n dry.   All the time looking out for little hollows which can be filled with car body filler.

Finally, spray it with an undercoat, allow it to dry for at least 48 hours - and then a final rub down with the finest of fine wet n dry and this should reveal any small blemishes left in the hull.   Air pockets which you may get, can be pricked out with a scalpel blade and can be filled in with car body filler.    I suggest  you read through the links that I have put on earlier on and this will give you pictures as well as written blurb :-)
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 03:26:25 pm »

Hi Bluebird,


A million thanks and could not have hoped for any better instructions than these - appreciate your step-by-step narrative and the pitfalls to avoid....
Interesting to read about the glass tissue matting as opposed  to the woven variants, as well as learning the difference between epoxy and polyester resins. It has arguably saved my hull !
I am quite keen to see how this will pan out, but judging from your explanations things should be ok as long as I take it gently and step by step.


Perhaps one last question, especially with winter at the doorstep: there appear to be a lot of 'warnings' about the ideal temperatures when letting the resin cure. As I am doing my modelbuilding in an unheated garage (suppose temperatures will fluctuate between 7 and 10 C), does this become an issue - or will such low temperatures merely prolong the drying process but not adversely affect the chemical reaction itself ?


Will not fail to let you know how I far, am hoping to complete the hull this weekend if not the next, and can then start looking into the fibreglassing process.


Thanks again, most appreciated your help with this
E
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John W E

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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 07:00:06 pm »

Cheers - sorry, got no further than your HMS YORK thread , now discovering the treasure cove in your other builds - just brilliant, thanks a million once more.


Just out of curiosity, and of little relevance to my current build, but reading through the HMS Exeter hull construction description couldn't help wondering - how did you achieve  that crisp 'cut' in the typical cruiser knuckle in the bows - would this be achieved by means of some hard wood stringer-like insertion ? But how to avoid that being sanded and becoming rounded ?


Thanks
E
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crabbersnipe

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Re: HMS Argonaut - Leander Class Frigate 1/96th
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2016, 09:20:39 pm »

A few more planks - almost there !
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