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Author Topic: HMS DARING  (Read 13953 times)

Capt Jack

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 10:08:21 pm »

O and forgot the dock part, there's only 3 docks around the UK that can hold them, the one in question at rosyth, the one in Belfast where Titanic was built and the one in Southampton that is used to refit cruise ships bigger than the carriers!!!!!!

There is no dry dock in Southampton anymore, the dock is still there but the gates have gone
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2010, 06:36:07 am »

i'm sure they could refit gates, but the point is the rosyth dock is where the refits will take place.
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pugwash

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2010, 06:45:12 am »

Perks842 If you check Bryans posts you will realise he was once and officer on that Fleet Train and has a good working
knowledge of it.
Geoff
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Netleyned

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2010, 03:46:33 pm »

Perks
Did you ever do a Portland Workup?
The Guzz Thursday war is nothing like it

Ned
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2010, 06:17:27 pm »

Perks842 If you check Bryans posts you will realise he was once and officer on that Fleet Train and has a good working
knowledge of it.
Geoff

It seems his day in the Navy is no use in this conversation, modern warfare is some what different as knowledge alike does expire  O0.

No Ned I haven't done a Portland work up but I don't think very highly of Thursday wars either. Small ship BOST a couple of years ago wasn't bad and the DCT in the gulf was a little bite into reality. Big ships haven't been purchased in work ups for years.
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2010, 06:21:06 pm »

If anyone was interested in a kit heres a 1/72 scale full kit under products

http://www.fleetscale.co.uk/system/index.html
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Bryan Young

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Re: Type 45 Destroyers
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2010, 06:43:05 pm »

Seems that it it's now been confirmed that the Government will not order the last two Darings - quite rightly it seems they were dubbed "Dubious" and "Doubtful". The original requirement was for 12 ships, now reduced to 6 and the Government was trying to flog two of those off earlier this year. There are rumours that HMS Victory and HMS Warrior are to be refitted and made ready for sea and that a feasibility study is in hand to rebuild the Mary Rose.

A Government spokesman said that reactivating Victory makes environmental sense as the ship is constructed from sustainable materials and all replacement wood will be met from organic sources. There will also be huge fuel savings as the ship is confidently expected to do at least 10,000 miles to the galleon.

Sob!  :'( :'( :'(
Tut, tut and more tuts Colin. Surely "Warrior" isn't a HMS (at least, not yet). Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2010, 07:16:26 pm »

Basically for "Perks842".
I've only just caught up with this site, and really must protest at both your comments and the way it was expressed. We may agree to differ, but "going personal" is not really a nice thing to do.
Perhaps, with a bit of hindsight, you may actually begin to agree with me. The carriers are being built....so I was wrong there, but built as a bit of political expediency/job protection in the Broons constinuency. Their future is more or less the same as if they were never built in the first place. Your version of the "Fleet Train" just isn't going to happen. Frigate and Destroyer numbers have been decimated and promised new ones are being cancelled if not sold off after construction. I believe that the "Astute" programme has been similarly cropped back.
As far as the RFA is concerned....a not insignificant part of "the whole"....both Fort Austin and Fort Rosalie are up for disposal at more or less the same time as the 2 (?) carriers hoist the white ensign. So that leaves only "Victoria" and "George" as suppliers of non fuels. I know they do both, but they can't be in 2 places at the same time. Flexible movement? Not really. The smaller "Rovers" have more or less gone away now. So the RN have only the 2 "Waves" to rely on. And where are they at any given moment? A couple of new tankers are "mooted", but the jury is still out on that one.
   To put it all into a nutshell, Brown and his left wing hatred of anything to do with the "elitist" Military have basically screwed up the defence of the realm for their own political agenda.
Please, never again try to "educate" me in the workings of the RN or the RFA. Bryan Young.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2010, 07:51:27 pm »

Sorry, Bryan, Warrior does indeed fly the Red Ensign at present. Still, put a couple of redundant Olympus engines out of the Ark into her and she'd frighten the French to death again.

Colin
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2010, 07:53:20 pm »

Amazes me Bryan. Many civilian workers of the dockyards who work on the ships day in day out still make up rumours of what's going to happen in each situation, the defence review the other week brought out some special ideas. Yes the UK has a poor style of military funding but this doesn't stop many things that we commit to happening. The other NATO countries running auxilary supplies do sell stores and fuel to us so don't think it's a completely independent program of NATO (that being a task force) which we always deploy in, in terms of Carrier groups. No carrier in NATO is left without anti-air protection when under way unless in home waters conducting sea trials etc. But of course looks like you have taken this into account by your findings  {:-{. SPOT ON
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DARLEK1

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2010, 11:20:14 pm »

Perks, how long have you been in and also what rank /rating are you if still in?

 Just a question.

 Paul...
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iron99

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2010, 02:25:02 pm »

Last night  Discovery Channel Canada ran "21st Century Warship" about H.M.S. Daring. A very informative documentary about this ship. Sure looks beautiful, and capable too!
Iron99
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Bryan Young

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2010, 04:41:55 pm »

Last night  Discovery Channel Canada ran "21st Century Warship" about H.M.S. Daring. A very informative documentary about this ship. Sure looks beautiful, and capable too!
Iron99
Capable? Well, I suppose she would be if "fitted with" as opposed to "fitted for". Must be very frustrating for her crew. BY.
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Netleyned

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2010, 04:57:07 pm »

Most of my ships over 23 years were" fitted for but not with" %% %% %%

Ned
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Bryan Young

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2010, 06:19:07 pm »

Most of my ships over 23 years were" fitted for but not with" %% %% %%

Ned
Yes Ned, I agree with you, but "Daring" was presented to the dirty unwashed (you and me etc) as an all singing, all dancing ship that was better equipped and "capable" than any other ship of her size afloat. Now it would appear that what we've actually got is a fighter with a glass jaw. No chance of the "rapid response" we were told she was capable of. I must admit to writing this sort of stuff with feelings of both despair and anger. Mainly anger that our previous "government" has so denuded this realms' capability to defend itself that posturing is the only thing left to do. In more than one way, I'm pleased that I probably won't live long enough to find out first hand just what legacy our now so-called "Her Majesties Opposition" has really bequeathed to this Nation. BY.
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2010, 06:34:34 pm »

Perks, how long have you been in and also what rank /rating are you if still in?

 Just a question.

 Paul...

I wouldn't give any details of me serving, I've served for 4 and a half years but been in and out of devonport since I was 8 as my old man was a civil servant for 45 years, basically brought up on all of it.
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warship1

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2010, 07:10:52 pm »

Well Its seems to me the Royal Navy has changed greatly in the last 4 years as I find you very disrespectful to Brian, one thing I remember while serving was to respect the older senior guy past and present as they paved the way for the younger guys coming through and without them you learnt nothing. Glad I left when I did if this is the current attitude circulating whats left of our fleet.
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2010, 08:53:46 am »

I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, I just don't like being disrespected by someone that has probably been out of the game for 15+ years.

He said there's no skilled people to man these carriers, That is my colleagues and me.
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2010, 09:35:00 am »

Capable? Well, I suppose she would be if "fitted with" as opposed to "fitted for". Must be very frustrating for her crew. BY.

The type 23s, albion class, ocean and T45 have all come under the fitted for not fitted. That's the defence cuts for you
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2010, 10:14:30 am »

Fitted "for but not with" is a system that the MoD has been using for many years, not just recently.
The Type 45's are unique in the fact that they were built with "empty" spaces to ensure any new equipment would have the physical space to fit in the hull.

Bob
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Bryan Young

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2010, 01:57:03 pm »

I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, I just don't like being disrespected by someone that has probably been out of the game for 15+ years.

He said there's no skilled people to man these carriers, That is my colleagues and me.
Lets just get this straight.
1. I realise that modern ships need less manpower than older ones.
    For the carriers, even less than predicted if no air group is to be carried, even less if they spend as much time tied to the wall as I expect
     them to be.
2. My earlier remarks about skilled and trained people was based on the then goverments' own announcements that new frigates, destroyers and submarines et-al would be coming on-stream to provide the new carriers (both of them) with a capable fleet and air-arm screen.
    At that time the RN was having manpower difficulties, so it was reasonable to ask just where all the extra bodies would be coming from. We'd just put the then new "Albion" and "Bulwark" into service. Heavily manned.
3. Now we know that the RN is not going to get all the ships it was promised, indeed; the fleet strength is actually being reduced. So manpower requirements are actually liable to fall. A complete turn-around from what was anticipated a couple of years ago. As a follow up to that, do you not also expect to see a reduction in training establishments? This now becomes a self perpetuating downward spiral.
All "new kit" requires trained and skilled people to operate it. From electronic charts (as recently highlighted) to being trained to operate missile systems etc. that can be fitted in modular form pretty quickly. But how can you train operators on gear they haven't got?
Hence the lack of skilled and trained operators. EOP. BY.
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2010, 04:23:32 pm »

ersonnel go on courses known as PJTs for kit fitted on there future draft or phase 2 if in training, also any new kit that is due to or is newly fitted. The personnel that will be operating get sent on those PJTs, man power has always been low in the years however the RN is making arrangements to get those manned I promise you. I've seen the plan of action within the fleet. I'm sorry Bryan that I miss understood your term of unskilled men.
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Netleyned

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2010, 04:49:48 pm »

Aaagh The old Pre Joining Training
Six weeks in Collingwood learning all about a new bit of Kit
Bit of kit sat in shed with loads of room all around it
Join ship bit of kit is three mods ahead of C'wood's pre production model
Stuck in a compartment with no room for the maintainer.
Get the manuals out and relearn on the job

When I was drafted to the Survey Navy (Hydrographic Service if you are posh)
I went on courses with the civilian makers of all the non service electronics
and the training was superb
We had as many ships surveying the worlds oceans as we now have policing them.
We had more frigates of one class than we now have ships in total

Good luck to all
the lads and lasses doing their bit today
I'm glad to be ashore and making waves on the local pond


Ned

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Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
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Bryan Young

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2010, 05:57:05 pm »

Aaagh The old Pre Joining Training
Six weeks in Collingwood learning all about a new bit of Kit
Bit of kit sat in shed with loads of room all around it
Join ship bit of kit is three mods ahead of C'wood's pre production model
Stuck in a compartment with no room for the maintainer.
Get the manuals out and relearn on the job

When I was drafted to the Survey Navy (Hydrographic Service if you are posh)
I went on courses with the civilian makers of all the non service electronics
and the training was superb
We had as many ships surveying the worlds oceans as we now have policing them.
We had more frigates of one class than we now have ships in total

Good luck to all
the lads and lasses doing their bit today
I'm glad to be ashore and making waves on the local pond


Ned


Ned, If I'd had the choice of which branch of the RN I could join I would have eagerly grabbed at the chance of joining the Hydrographic section. But I didn't get that chance, which made my decision to join Cable & Wireless (after completing my cadetship) so much easier. The 2 outfits have much in common. I learned so much in my time with C & W.
The "Bible" was (to me) always the volumes of the Admiralty Manual of Hydrographic Surveying". It taught me the need for neatness and accuracy in any form of chartwork, along with the need for precision and a willingness to realise that if you do a bit of "cheating" (be it in fudging star-sights or whatever) the only person your'e cheating is yourself. A career I missed out on! Bryan.
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Perks842

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Re: HMS DARING
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2010, 03:01:06 pm »

Aaagh The old Pre Joining Training
Six weeks in Collingwood learning all about a new bit of Kit
Bit of kit sat in shed with loads of room all around it
Join ship bit of kit is three mods ahead of C'wood's pre production model
Stuck in a compartment with no room for the maintainer.
Get the manuals out and relearn on the job

When I was drafted to the Survey Navy (Hydrographic Service if you are posh)
I went on courses with the civilian makers of all the non service electronics
and the training was superb
We had as many ships surveying the worlds oceans as we now have policing them.
We had more frigates of one class than we now have ships in total

Good luck to all
the lads and lasses doing their bit today
I'm glad to be ashore and making waves on the local pond


Ned



Spot on  {-)
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