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Author Topic: Russian Fleet  (Read 4506 times)

tigertiger

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Russian Fleet
« on: November 10, 2016, 12:50:21 PM »

I have just been reading about the Russian fleet going through the Mediterranean, and did a Google image search.
There is some really tasty looking bits of kit. They may not be the most advanced, but look very interesting.



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dodes

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 07:52:08 PM »

I bet our naval boys would like some of the Russkies ships instead of their toothless unreliable floating tin cans.
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rnli12

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 06:31:37 AM »

Hi,
 
Thats quite a harsh statement to make with our ships, I like many others have been proud to serve on our 'tin cans' which are still highly capable with the design intent they were intended for.
 
Rich
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Regards,

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dodes

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 02:19:35 PM »

Look at their reliability factor, the 45 have spent more time in port for various reasons than at sea, and their supposed weapons systems are quite limited compared to say a similar size Yank or Russian. Remember sum time ago on a course and was talking to a Naval officer who had just done a Greenwich course , telling me about an argument he had with a supposed expert on warships and weapons going on about how superior a Leander was to various Russian frigate classes. He said yes but what happens when you meet over a dozen Russian ones, what then the expert started to try to go off on another subject He said his vessel was sent out to shadow a Russian exercise and some how ended up in the middle of their fleet at day break, said it was very imitating and a bit frightening. 
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rnli12

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2016, 03:30:15 PM »

Look at their reliability factor, the 45 have spent more time in port for various reasons than at sea, and their supposed weapons systems are quite limited compared to say a similar size Yank or Russian. Remember sum time ago on a course and was talking to a Naval officer who had just done a Greenwich course , telling me about an argument he had with a supposed expert on warships and weapons going on about how superior a Leander was to various Russian frigate classes. He said yes but what happens when you meet over a dozen Russian ones, what then the expert started to try to go off on another subject He said his vessel was sent out to shadow a Russian exercise and some how ended up in the middle of their fleet at day break, said it was very imitating and a bit frightening.

Perhaps a very blinkered view considering we maintain all our deterents and capability worldwide and have the best training in the world.
 
Then again im not on here to argue the point, just proud of Service personnel, and remember those whom have fallen in the defence of the realm.
 
 
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Regards,

Rich

dodes

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2016, 04:00:05 PM »


I have recently seen the official availability figures for this class and it is not good, mainly through Generators not capable of supplying full capacity when required causing a power failure. To up grade the generators requires the ship to be virtually dismantled as there are no soft patches or built in routes for machinery to be exchanged as normal on all previous classes.

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derekwarner

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2016, 07:40:54 PM »

The power generation issue was well known before the first Type 45 was commissioned ....not a Naval decision, but those wonderful men  >>:-( ...[bean counters] in grey pinstripe suits ......and probably the nearest for them as being at sea would have been to go to a fish shop. :o....... Derek
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Derek Warner

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mudway

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 01:16:06 AM »

Hi,
 
Thats quite a harsh statement to make with our ships, I like many others have been proud to serve on our 'tin cans' which are still highly capable with the design intent they were intended for.
 
Rich
Have a look at their ships refuelling. They drifted for hours like this off Gib as they cannot refuel whilst moving. Not what I consider modern warship techniques. Made them lovely targets though, sitting ducks even.  :-)
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 06:48:22 PM »

Interesting angle that the photo was taken from. Kind of looks like directly above the aircraft carrier. Would it even be possible to get this sort of shot from directly over a US carrier, without getting shot down at 150 miles?! I exaggerate, but surely they should have had 'some' control over their own  battle space?
Another case of 'All show, No go?'
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mudway

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 09:07:18 PM »

Unfortunately for the Russians, they were right under the path of a satellite which is interesting as I would have thought these days the track of all satellites would be known to intelligence agencies.
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 11:00:14 PM »

Beggars the question, is it staged for counter intelligence purposes. 8) 8)

The old magicians trick, keep looking at my carrier, submarine what submarine. I didn't see it. ok2 ok2

Also why waste fuel if unnecessary and if you are cock of the walk why not do what you want. Namely drift along.

So are we jumping/being led to assumptions and coming to wrong conclusions? <*< <*<

Don't forget that the tactical war is, among other things, to confuse and blind your enemy. :-X :-X

Time to get out of the armchair and go for a walk.
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 01:01:31 AM »

It's my thought, that the Russian carrier is more of a shipment of parts and supplies.
However, it isn't something that couldn't be done with cargo aircraft.
The other part of it, was to press the international bounderies of all the countries that
the ships passed as they made their way to the Mediterranean. This probably revealed
a lot about the state of relations, , temperament, and ability of countries to respond to a perceived incursion.
Such as Spain denying in port refueling. There is plenty more, but it begins to delve more into the politics...

mudway

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 01:47:11 AM »

Beggars the question, is it staged for counter intelligence purposes. 8) 8)

The old magicians trick, keep looking at my carrier, submarine what submarine. I didn't see it. ok2 ok2

Also why waste fuel if unnecessary and if you are cock of the walk why not do what you want. Namely drift along.

So are we jumping/being led to assumptions and coming to wrong conclusions? <*< <*<

Don't forget that the tactical war is, among other things, to confuse and blind your enemy. :-X :-X

Time to get out of the armchair and go for a walk.


I don't think so, if you look at the Russian oilers they are not built to refuel side by side the way the west does. They were denied entry to ports to refuel so had no choice but to do it this way. Steaming up the Med like the US does would have made more of a statement of capabilities.
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2016, 04:46:47 AM »

Interesting.

My image search for Russian ships refuelling at sea produced no images????? but I am limited in ability.

However, it produced, A Malaysian straights newspaper article, (October 2016) as per Umi's post, that Spain was chastised for agreeing to allow Russian refuelling facilities.

Consequently when access to shore refuelling facilities was denied, two oilers joined the Russians for refuelling, no one knows who they are or where they are from.

So are we sure Russians cant successfully refuel at sea??????
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derekwarner

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2016, 06:51:32 AM »

When was the last time an IOWA Class Battleship completed a RAS?...............
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Derek Warner

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mudway

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2016, 08:30:08 AM »

When was the last time an IOWA Class Battleship completed a RAS?...............


Years ago and the Russians still can't do it.  :}


The Russians had one vessel capable of side to side refuelling but that is long gone. All their fuel replenishment ships are tankers. Their ships are supposed to be able to refuel while underway the old fashioned (WW2 RN) way of oiling from astern but nobody seems to have seen them do it. Normally they go close inshore to a shallow bay and anchor alongside each other and refuel that way.


I'd guess that the carrier, Smokey Joe, needed fuel before they could find a shallow bay.
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TheLongBuild

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2016, 11:31:20 AM »


One thing about the Russians, Never Assume..  as a famous quote says slightly altered


" Did you see it  No... then Assumption is the mother of all ( Insert own comment here )  "             

tigertiger

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2016, 12:08:43 PM »

Don't forget that a number of Russian battle ships are nuclear. Refueling for these is not an issue.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2016, 12:52:43 PM »

Russia doesn't have any battleships! Peter the Great is a missile cruiser. I think she is the only nuclear powered Russian surface combatant in service, her three sister ships are all laid up and it seems unlikely that more than one will be returned to service, if that.

Colin
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tigertiger

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2016, 12:54:40 PM »

I stand corrected on the nukes. And I should have used the word warships.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2016, 01:29:54 PM »

Should be  ashamed of yourself TT - the naughty step for you!  :police:

Colin
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Brian60

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2016, 04:45:04 PM »

I'd say that the overhead photo is more than likely a hi def satellite image rather than taken from a plane.

DavieTait

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2016, 05:48:52 PM »


^^ that was October 1987 in Lower Loch Broom Ullapool ,  one of around 7 tankers the Soviets sent to refuel the 115 processing boats ( called Klondykers ) taking Herring and Mackerel , all pretty much the same class , had to be put alongside the larger boats by tugs ( 4 Russian tugs there as well ) , I was told they were pretty standard issue for the Northern Fleet / Baltic Fleet and didn't have the ability to refuel underway so nothing much has changed in 29 years..
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Bob K

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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2016, 06:39:57 PM »

On BBC News:  "A Russian MiG-29 fighter jet has crashed into the Mediterranean Sea as it tried to land on the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, the country's defence ministry has said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37978463
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Re: Russian Fleet
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2016, 09:37:29 PM »

Probably couldn't see the flight deck due to smoke!
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