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Author Topic: The future of Model Boating ....  (Read 9246 times)

Charlie

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2018, 03:15:21 PM »

I would say the hobby is experiencing a downturn, rather than actually dying! I wonder how much this is down to stagnation within the model boat kit industry? I don't see that any of the manufacturers have come up with anything new or innovative during the last 20 or 30 years. A boat kit today is pretty much the same as one produced 20 years ago. Without innovation the decline will continue, IMHO!


Charlie

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2018, 04:26:17 PM »

....., but practical engineering is, we have a raft of bright young electrical design engineers where I work, but none of them have any practical skills.....

Ha! How very true! A little while ago,  I gave a microphone stand to a young chap and asked him to shorthen in down and fold it up ready to pack away...... after 10 minutes, he was completely flummoxed and just gave up!


I must admit, I don't like this pervasive attitude of;
I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to do it.
I don't want to ask and admit I don't know what to do.
I don't want to try and fail.
I don't want to try, fail and look foolish.     >:-o




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plastic

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2018, 04:30:24 PM »

A boat kit today is pretty much the same as one produced 20 years ago. Without innovation the decline will continue, IMHO!


Exactly - the only thing that I can see over that period is the cheapo boats from the toyshops are now streets ahead of the 80s versions - and so much cheaper in real terms. Everything else is pretty much as it was.

This is one of the major reasons I modify plastic kits - it's all there, it only needs one type of glue, you know it will all fit properly and a good result is guaranteed in a reasonable timeframe.
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TugCowboy

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2018, 06:11:57 PM »

As a "younger" modeller (well...33, but I was young when I started) I don't see it dying at all.
What I do see though are more people from their early teens and Twenties looking at things in a different way and sharing their modelling in a different way too.


There are some truly EXCELLENT YouTube channels out there of people making models of boats that are very sophisticated and hugely functional but in a different way. These boats might be made differently using more modern techniques but the joy that comes with it these days doesn't seem to be making 100% accurate models and sailing them with others stood around a pond.



Here's a couple of channels that have done great stuff, especially the first one and I suspect a lot of modellers might see the benefits and




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lBh6K85-Yg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaIjdgTiP0o&t=5s


It's more about solving problems of a technical and engineering nature and then sharing them with people on Social Media and through blogs.
To be honest I kind of see the draw of that these days.


Model clubs in my area used to be welcoming and convenient, a nice sail on a Sunday but after being given the cold shoulder at one the other was a nice haven for a while but the majority of the members sail during the week when I (and most other people under 65) are at work. The members aren't interested in making things more accessible because the current setup is more convenient for them.


So I'm trying to start my own club in the Town I live and have been at that for 18 months now, making some progress thanks to advice from Klunk earlier in the week but it's still got a long slog to go and things aren't easy.




I suspect with 3D printing, resin printers and all the arduino/pi/etc boards you can get these days you'll see more people getting in to the hobby of having radio controlled boats - but they might not be the scale models we're quite used to being the definition of the hobby.


I suppose 60 years ago or so it wasn't all Kort Nozzles, Mixers and Sound units either, the hobby now probably looks very different to how it looked then and we should be embracing change because it's going to come should we like it or not. 


We've always got Mayhem ;)
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2018, 06:18:51 PM »

 
            :-))
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jaymac

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2018, 07:22:10 PM »

There may still be more people still doing it but not in clubs. There is about a dozen regulars at our lake  one is a club member several are Ex members I have no interest in clubs.  As for  model boats  why would the young be interested there is no Hype to attract them celebrities'  flashy advertising etc., Even toilet paper adverts has Kids praising how clean they feel   using XX brand. They  even need  FPV cameras and goggles to be interested in drones what chance a Thames barge  floating about .If   you are worried about it  maybe we should go round knocking on doors and ask ''Have you heard the story of Noah'' would you like to attend one of our meetings. It will come back what goes around comes around  apart from my ruddy boats :}
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roycv

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2018, 08:18:12 PM »

Hi Tugcowboy, I watched the videos and felt sad the lad had not looked for guidance, which is so easy to find on-line.  A bit like avoiding the apprenticeship and expecting first time success.
Your remarks about joining a club when the majority of the sailing was mid week.  I am not sure what your expectations were. (in a nice way)  They are not going to change for one younger member.  If you join in then you can only add your interests and sail at weekends.  My experience is that if you are having fun then others will join in.  Not every model boat maker is necessarilly a nice guy or someone you are going to get on with but you should find a few kindred spirits.
It is worth joing a club there is lots of experience to be had for free and you may well bring an ability with you.
Good luck
Roy
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McGherkin

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2018, 12:59:04 PM »

Given how much of a furore is kicked up over the slightest things, Iím not sure if the modelling world is ready for the current generation.


Besides, why build a model boat when you can buy a 50+mph boat off the shelf or fire up a computer and drive a Ďrealí one?
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tigertiger

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2018, 01:51:21 PM »

I see a lot of potential now for small engineering and modeling. Robot Wars was a TV series that made engineering sexy, but building those kind of bots was expensive, and you needed a space to use them. There were motorized robot model kits, but to be honest they were dull.


There are a lot of kids getting into robotics now. This relies on microprocessors (Arduino/RaspberyPi), control motors, servos, 3D printing, CAD, and using traditional materials. Even remote telemetry and FPV goggles, using tablets and mobile phones as monitors and remote controllers. This provides a lot of crossover with other areas of modelling and engineering. These tools are already crossing over into model boating. A lot of the interest is in overcoming design and build issues, the process of making is important.


What about the latest tech toy, drones? Take out of the box, short running times, they can get boring pretty quickly.


There are probably more websites dedicated to robotics and making stuff (instructables.com is one) than ever before. It is growing.


As a GOG it is easy to take no interest in what kids are up to, and assume they are not doing anything. Or even fail to see that they might be doing anything remotely related to what we already do, and sometimes better.
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tigertiger

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2018, 02:09:13 PM »

Ha! How very true! A little while ago,  I gave a microphone stand to a young chap and asked him to shorthen in down and fold it up ready to pack away...... after 10 minutes, he was completely flummoxed and just gave up!


I must admit, I don't like this pervasive attitude of;
I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to do it.
I don't want to ask and admit I don't know what to do.
I don't want to try and fail.
I don't want to try, fail and look foolish.     >:-o






A bit like me with a deckchair then. %) {:-{

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roycv

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2018, 02:27:03 PM »

Thats a very good attempt with the deck chairs but I think the stripes are upside down.regards Roy
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Bob K

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2018, 03:19:53 PM »

There is another, compelling reason, why the average age of model boaters keeps rising.

Back in my late teens and early twenties I moved from Meccano to balsa planes and Airfix kits. Maybe like many of us who were showing signs of curiosity and creativity even at that age.

However, curiosity turned to girls, which led to working long hours, a mortgage, and eventually children.  No time, or money, for the more solitary pastime of scratch building slot racing cars etc.

Time passed.  Eventually the mortgage got paid off, children married and moved out, I retired, and we developed a fault on our TV set.  For some reason it would only show forensic dramas.
It was then I started to spend more time in our small front room, building things.  It kept the little grey cells active and each build was a journey towards making ships that I could sail at our local club.  This got me out of the house, where I met many new friends.

So, when anyone decries the fact that most enthusiasts are retired, or close to, please think of my journey and it should not be surprising that most of us are older.  I now understand why the multi-tasking commitments of people with young families is not conducive to long hours of lone model making.

Their time will come, as long as there are people like us to help them make that transition.
Our club has almost fifty members.  So what if we are generally older, it is all part of the long Circle of Life.    Don't knock it.   O0

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petermun

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2018, 03:52:26 PM »

Well put!  Pete (aged 86 and still boating)
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Charlie

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2018, 04:38:14 PM »

I don't actually understand why people get so concerned about this subject, and why it is debated so much. If you want to build model boats, just get on and enjoy it.  So what if "the younger generation" don't want to join the hobby - that's their business, not your concern. Life is too short to worry about what other people are spending their time doing!


Charlie

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2018, 05:50:45 PM »

Hi Charlie I know where you are coming from it is really the running of the model boat clubs, who are short of guys to carry on, be on committee etc.  The oldies have to stay in place no retirement in this job! Regards, Roy 
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warspite

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2018, 06:22:12 PM »

In my case, I would have to retire before being able to get fully back into the making of boats (my current work doesn't allow me much time and the weather is too good to be sat in the loft), then there is the 'exclusivity' factor - some clubs only will allow members to sail - visitors are tolerated where I live but they would prefer you to 'join', the old municipal boat pond of yesteryear should come back, but with the lack of suitable ponds these are all taken up by fishing clubs or the members only lot. discuss
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me3

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2018, 08:04:31 PM »

Just to brighten your spirits, I am a young modeller, well I am 21 now but been at it since about 14, have some 13 boats now and several other things including a 1:7 boat trailer and a 1:10 MAN V12 engine in progress. I think I have only posted about a few on here so don't forget there are lots of people beavering away in the background! I have also introduced my girlfriend into the hobby and she has completely restored and re-designed a Billings smit Rotterdam that was pretty rotten so hopefully us two will keep the hobby going!  :-))

Interactions I have had with other modellers has never been great, I am a petrol race boater and used to go to OMRA meets to watch and used to find the guys would ignore me or be very reluctant to help despite being very interested and asking for help with my own model. Even scale boaters at my local park never seem interested in chatting to me and seem to see me as a bit of a hooligan despite having several non-hooligan scale boats! I tend to find the 'we're proper engineers' type people from the older generation look down their nose at us, some of us are still very capable of making and designing things.

Its one of those things - the ages of people in the hobby seem to be at two extremes which is a pair of generations that seem to struggle to understand each other, the old guys think we're all hooligans and the young guys think the old guys are grumpy!

I hope I haven't offended anyone! Just my take on things!

But hey, I really love it and will do my best to keep at it!  :-)) :-))

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KitS

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2018, 09:49:03 PM »

It's a big pity you found that sort of response with us old 'uns Me3.  :((

I hope I don't give that sort of response to any younger model boaters who I come across, I'd be ashamed of myself if I did.

Let's hope attitudes improve toward you and your girlfriend in the future.
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Kit

me3

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2018, 10:29:06 PM »

No no, I have never had a problem with anyone on the forum before, a lot of guys I have met before are very nice people and are willing to help! I have no problems with anyone on here!
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grendel

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2018, 10:42:17 PM »

at 58 I struggled when I went along to one of the local boating lakes, I had to literally go and ask questions just to get a response, they were more interested with chatting with their friends than talking to someone new, so its not just a problem for the youth of today.
To be fair to them they probably did not realise just how difficult they were making it to be accepted into the fraternity, I have noticed it similarly difficult to break into any new society or club nowadays, and then they complain that they are not recruiting new / younger members.
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TomHugill

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2018, 11:35:47 PM »

Just to brighten your spirits, I am a young modeller, well I am 21 now but been at it since about 14, have some 13 boats now and several other things including a 1:7 boat trailer and a 1:10 MAN V12 engine in progress. I think I have only posted about a few on here so don't forget there are lots of people beavering away in the background! I have also introduced my girlfriend into the hobby and she has completely restored and re-designed a Billings smit Rotterdam that was pretty rotten so hopefully us two will keep the hobby going!  :-))

Interactions I have had with other modellers has never been great, I am a petrol race boater and used to go to OMRA meets to watch and used to find the guys would ignore me or be very reluctant to help despite being very interested and asking for help with my own model. Even scale boaters at my local park never seem interested in chatting to me and seem to see me as a bit of a hooligan despite having several non-hooligan scale boats! I tend to find the 'we're proper engineers' type people from the older generation look down their nose at us, some of us are still very capable of making and designing things.

Its one of those things - the ages of people in the hobby seem to be at two extremes which is a pair of generations that seem to struggle to understand each other, the old guys think we're all hooligans and the young guys think the old guys are grumpy!

I hope I haven't offended anyone! Just my take on things!

But hey, I really love it and will do my best to keep at it!  :-)) :-))


I think you've really hit the nail on the head here. I've been quite lucky with the Bury club as most of the chaps there are very friendly and seem to like a good chat about the hobby, I've not had much to do with the fast electric lot but they've always been ok too. However there a few members who've been down right rude (overheard one telling another to run my submarine over, not that it would have done much good to him hitting 30kg were weight of fiberglass etc), if this had been my first contact it would have been very off putting.


One thing I will say to the likes of plastic who puts this down to some issue with the current generation, why is the rctank hobby booming as it is? Tanks in the main cost more.than RC boats, are just as complex mechanically and definitely more complex electronically, can have just as much detail etc and don't have the vast second hand RTR market model boats do. Also the average age of model tanker is probably 20-30 years less than the that of the model boater, same with model submariners. I think it's down to the way the hobbyking set up and the sometimes snobbishness (Mr plastic proclaiming to be one of the last proper engineers as an example) of the model boat fraternity.
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plastic

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2018, 06:10:17 AM »


 (Mr plastic proclaiming to be one of the last proper engineers as an example) of the model boat fraternity.

I apologise if it came across as snobbery - what I was trying (but obviously failed) to convey was it's actually a real disappointment that there's nowhere around training anyone for the younger generation who are the least able to travel long distances every day for their 'local' college.

What I was trying to say was that there's nowhere left training anyone in engineering - it's all shut down through lack of enough  interest to keep them going. I was literally the last year as it all closed right behind me so anyone wishing to get into engineering finds their paths much more difficult or completely blocked - which puts most off.

All this does is make people more reluctant to spend money on something where they know they lack the basic skills and so the chance of it going in the loft or on ebay is elevated.

They are more likely to buy an RTR if they want an RC boat.

If they want something more involved, then really, the kit manufactures need to make their models a lot more straight forward to put together - but that would involve spending a lot more time and money in the development phase - which will crank the kit price up significantly without any guarantee that people will buy.

This opens a real niche in the market - currently filled by the Revell Flower Class - as the only large model that a basic Airfix modeller can progress into RC boats. It only requires the transfer of RC car building skills and you're up and running.

The large torpedo boat models (Italeri & Lindberg) are the next logical step - still using RC car thinking - it's a 'hop-up' with small risk to use bigger motors, bigger batteries, high current ecs, maybe water cooling and lights - and they'll have to solve a few more engineering issues.

Maybe their next step would be something more challenging...
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steam up

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2018, 09:04:13 AM »

Must admit that I flinched a little at the"proper engineer" comment too,that aside I think we are fighting a losing battle much like the decline of the Highstreets. The and freshly will be a decline in the trade support for the hobby with those interested moving to more micro manufacturing ,3d printing and scratch building which might not be a bad thing in itself.

plastic

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2018, 09:23:55 AM »

I shall explain 'proper engineer'. (probably not the best description given the audience) Lets say multi-skilled all-rounder.

My peers had the best of available training. I was lucky enough to be given a 4-year training course with my 1st job that paid for all my acedemic studies. In parallel with this was an intense practical training course covering everything from mills & lathes to soldering skills, wiring, programming, electrical, hydraulics, pneumatics, vacuum tech, RF systems, analogue & digital design, project management, ERP systems etc. It was REALLY tough to assimilate everything the company required to be allowed to progress on to the next year.

I am extremely grateful for this huge 'leg-up' in my career.

I do not know of ANYWHERE that offers training like this now. You can get academic training like HNC, HND, degrees etc. OR you can get practical BTec training that can take many years to get anywhere.

Like I have mentioned, my close connections with schools & colleges have shown how hard it is to get people into engineering and even those who would like to study find it hard to find training in their area.
The old-fashioned apprenticeships don't exist anymore. What is on offer these days doesn't come close.

It is the reason that trying to recruit 'all-rounder' engineers is so hard.
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terry horton

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Re: Model boating dying?
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2018, 09:55:53 AM »

Plastic is exactly right..... back in 1966  I managed to get "real apprenticeship" offers from Rolls Royce and Royal Ordnance. I took the Royal Ordnance position as the location was best for travel for a 7.55 am start. There were 50 apprentices on that years intake, all obtaining a vast knowledge after the 4 years indenture period... a few of us continued with night school after that time to improve our  qualifications. The discipline at this establishment was almost on par with the Armed Forces, all for our own good I might add..... my wife tells me that Nurses Training at this time was much the same.
 I don't know of any company offering both practical and academic education at this level.
I ended up as a design draughts-man but moved on to do very intricate medical engineering, covering every aspect of  engineering discipline. All of this knowledge I now use as a pensioner ,with lots of time on his hands and many interests, to keep my brain active


Terry H
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