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Author Topic: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug  (Read 12269 times)

Colin Duerden

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Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« on: January 06, 2017, 03:38:11 pm »

I need some advice on the paddle wheel speed for my Director Class Paddle Tug. At the moment the motors in the boat are rated at 40 RPM. I have tried the boat in the bath but the boat moves only slowly. What speed of motor would be best for the tug. I should point out that the boat is fairly heavy. Also I am using a 6 Volt Battery to power the boat. Any advice would be useful. Thank You and kind regards Colin Duerden.
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Netleyned

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 03:46:36 pm »

It would help to know the motors and
the recommended voltage for 40 rpm.


Ned
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2017, 04:01:22 pm »

I don't know the make of motors but they are gear box motors high toque. Also the 40 RPM ones are rated at 6 volt. Thanks very much Ned I hope this helps. Regards Colin
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2017, 04:16:09 pm »


I wonder if you have the MFA geared motors, they usually have red plastic end caps.

Are you using the motor/s direct on the shafts via non-reduction gears, chain, pulleys?


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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2017, 04:19:54 pm »

Hi Martin I am using the motors directly to the shaft. One motor to each Paddle. Hope this is helpful. Thanks and Regards Colin.
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2017, 04:28:19 pm »

Hi Martin I noticed your picture. Not using these, I am using motors with a diameter of 2.5 cm with a length of 4 cm fully encased with a central shaft of just less than 1 cm in length. Hope this is helpful. Regards Colin
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John W E

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 05:16:47 pm »

hi there

At the current time I am busy in the process of building The "Director" Class Paddle Tug - from freebie plans (Model Boats Magazine January 1980 ) and what I did was to opt for a belt-drive using MFA tooth drive pulleys/2 motors from Component Shop, rather than constructing a gear box which is described in the article.   As a reference I have tried to source the motor gear box that you are going to use.

The paddles on the model I am building will have a variable speed, due to the fact that I am using 2 speed controllers and a mixer to govern the speed of the paddles anywhere from zero-250 rpm.   The paddles are non-feathering built from a set of plans from My Hobbies Store,  The Pulleys from MFA are 60 mm for the drive of the paddle shaft and 15 mm diameter for the drive on the motor.   The motor is equivalent to a 12 volt 555, running on 6 volt.

John
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John W E

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2017, 05:33:43 pm »

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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2017, 05:54:45 pm »

Hi John and thank you for your pictures and message. I did actually try a similar method to this last year  with one motor and pulley and belt. It worked fine until I got it on the lake where the belt kept slipping under power. I got over the disappointment and tried the two direct drive motors rated at 40 RPM. No good too slow. The actual boat is really wonderful in appearance. I would send you a pictire but don't know how to do this on the forum. I have now taken the bull by the horns for now and ordered two 60 RPM and two 200 RPM. I need them to be the right size as fitting them in the small space is difficult. I need a friend of mine to do this so I would really be grateful if I only needed to ask him one more time. I hope you enjoy building your model and please let me know what progress that you have made. It really is a wonderful model. P.S.
 It has taken weeks to at last find suitable motors from ebay I hope they arrive soon. How do you send pictures. Perhaps you can help me with this. With Very Kind Regards Colin Duerden
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John W E

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 06:08:18 pm »

Hi there, follow the link below and this will show you how to put photographs on this forum (there are several methods)  :-))


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23.0.html

John
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tony52

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 08:07:12 pm »

One of the items in the latest Marine Modelling International magazine is the build of a Director Class paddle tug.

http://thehobbyhub.com/water/magazines/marine-modelling-international/about#.WG_4M2w1zIU
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 08:11:00 pm »

Thanks for that Tony Regards Colin
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 08:16:26 pm »

130rpm to 200rpm at the paddles should be about right. you will have speed control on these after all. This sort of rev range has suited one of our ( distant, Romania residing ) members on over half a dozen paddlers that he has built. Using MFAs 148:1 reduction 540/1 or 385 type motors. Chain drive from Expo Drills and Tools, or as mentioned, timing belts and pulleys from MFA. He would usually use slightly different size pulleys on motor and output shaft. If it was too fast or slow, he could switch the pulleys about for a bit of fine tuning.
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 08:23:07 pm »

Hi John I am trying to send a picture.
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 08:30:19 pm »

Thanks to you advising the speed for the motors being 200 RPM I will go for that. Regards Colin Duerden.
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 09:27:28 pm »

Hi John another picture for you perhaps Regards Colin
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 09:32:12 pm »

Hi John I hope you dont mind me practising on you just getting used to how to send a picture. As you can see there is very little room between the motors in the small size of the motor compartment. Regards Colin
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2017, 10:14:14 pm »

Hi unbuiltnautilus Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I like the idea of 200 RPM and I will go with this. As you say there will be a certain amount of control available from the speed controller. Thank you once again this should be OK. Regards Colin Duerden
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John W E

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 05:27:36 pm »

hi Colin

have you acquired this month's (Jan 2017) issue of Marine Modelling International?

There is a 2 part article on The Director Class Tug Model built from Kingston Mouldings Fibreglass Hull and a specially designed motor gearbox which enables the paddles to be independently driven and there is a clutch mechanism which locks the 2 paddle drives together - very interesting and well worth a read.

John
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2017, 07:30:40 pm »

Hi John Thanks for your reply. No I have unfortunately not got the edition of Marine Modelling. I usually get a copy of Model Boats when I can but this is sometimes difficult and it is not always available ( Sold Out ) I assume at WH Smiths. I am going to have to use two 200 RPM motors which I have ordered but I like the idea of separate controls for the paddles. I suppose I could do this with a Four Channel transmitter and Receiver. What do you think? Do you think this may be possible?  With Kind Regards Colin.
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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2017, 07:48:52 pm »

hi ya Colin

could you give me a quick description of the set up inside your Tug?   the electric set up that is.  e.g. do you have one speed controller controlling the 2 motors? and, are you running a 2 channel radio set on the model?

If you are - it is beneficial to have the 2 motors independently controlled via 2 separate speed controllers on 2 separate channels on your radio or, using what is known as a mixer.  This mixer can incorporates the rudder movement with the 2 speed controllers.

Wait for your reply and will take it from there :-)
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 09:27:58 pm »

Hi John and thank you for your reply. At the moment I am using a two channel radio with the motors on one channel and steering on the other. There is one speed controller and both paddles work together. Would it be the best idea to buy a four channel radio set up with two speed controllers? If so how do you wire up the system? Is it fairly easy? Hope this is helpful. Let me know what you think. With very kind regards from Colin.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2017, 09:57:39 am »

For independent control, each motor needs its own ESC.  Wih two motors on one ESC you will always be hoping that both motors will have the same performance.
If using one stick per motor, just plug the ESCs into the appropriate channels.  This would need a 4 channel, two stick radio.  You might remember my attempts to steer my little minesweeper in a straight line that way.
Much the same effect can be had using a 2 channel set if a mixer is inserted between the radio and ESCs.  Some wiring diagrams at http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6169.0.html  Generally, a mixer works better than doing it manually.
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Colin Duerden

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2017, 01:33:53 pm »

Thanks Malcolm I am going to go up to Lancaster next week to visit the model shop. I will buy anything needed for both systems that you have described. I don't seem to be able to make my mind up which system to use. The 60 RPM motors which I ordered are at Heathrow DC and I ordered the 200 RPM motors 8 days after the order I placed for the 60 RPM motors. Also John I would be interested to know which method do you think is best?  Regards Colin 
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John W E

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Re: Motor For Director Class Paddle Tug
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2017, 05:01:18 pm »

hi there Colin

Personally, I prefer to have independent drives on the paddle tug.   To me, it gives a greater scope of use of the model on the water, rather than just relying on the rudder to perform turns. 

The only concern I have with your system are the motors you are going to use.  I am wondering, will they be up to it, driving the paddles without overheating?  That is what you will have to watch out for.   

Have a look at the photographs that I have put on - you will see I have used a 'toothed' belt drive system which also incorporates a reduction gearing - its about 6 - 1 ratio - as they say.   Bear in mind the hull that you have is the same size as my hull and you will have the same access & available space inside the hull for modifying and changing motors and gearing,

If you do a web search for people who have built this particular model - I believe you will find the majority of them have used a gearing system of some form - either plastic pulleys and chain drive or tooth belt drive as I have - or a gearing drive system.

Hope this is of some help.

John
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