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Author Topic: Building models for filming  (Read 28236 times)

dreadnought72

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #150 on: January 21, 2017, 09:59:12 PM »

My two pence...


Assuming weather/sea compositing and model work works on the screen, there are two films I'd love to see.


None are war stories or involve large ships.


The first would be a dramatization of Ernest Shackleton's 720-nautical mile rescue mission in the southern winter of 1916 to South Georgia, in a 20' boat in appalling conditions. An utterly outstanding feat of heroism by all concerned.


The second, Frank Dye's 1964 voyage to Norway in a 16' wayfarer. No GPS, no chance of rescue, no advanced weather reports, a force nine gale, sub-par weather gear, four capsizes and a dismasting. True grit, indeed.


Oh, and since this is a wishlist, I'd quite like to see what could be made of Arthur Ransome's boat 'Nancy Blackett', 28-feet, in a storm in the North Sea, just like the one the Goblin survives in his book, 'We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea'. If that didn't induce sea sickness in the viewer, and a real sense of how powerless we are in the face of Big Weather, little else would.


Andy
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John Stedman

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2017, 08:15:14 AM »

My two pence...

Assuming weather/sea compositing and model work works on the screen, there are two films I'd love to see.

None are war stories or involve large ships.

The first would be a dramatization of Ernest Shackleton's 720-nautical mile rescue mission in the southern winter of 1916 to South Georgia, in a 20' boat in appalling conditions. An utterly outstanding feat of heroism by all concerned.

The second, Frank Dye's 1964 voyage to Norway in a 16' wayfarer. No GPS, no chance of rescue, no advanced weather reports, a force nine gale, sub-par weather gear, four capsizes and a dismasting. True grit, indeed.

Oh, and since this is a wishlist, I'd quite like to see what could be made of Arthur Ransome's boat 'Nancy Blackett', 28-feet, in a storm in the North Sea, just like the one the Goblin survives in his book, 'We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea'. If that didn't induce sea sickness in the viewer, and a real sense of how powerless we are in the face of Big Weather, little else would.

Andy

These are very constructive ideas. I know a Producer who is interested in the the idea 'Nobody rules the waves' and is putting together a proposal on this theme similar to the successful Cineflix series 'Mayday' (which is about commercial airline disasters). I'll speak to him about the stories you suggest.

Arthur Ransome's books are still a great read today. 'Secret Water' is my favourite, a simply amazing story that should be on everybody's bucket list!
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #152 on: January 22, 2017, 11:32:43 AM »


Hi John,

To alleviate some questions ...  suspicions  even, regarding your credentials.... can we see some photos of your past projects please?   :-)

I have an architectural and design firm, and recently we have started working for the film and TV industries to make models for the screen. Currently we are starting to plan to make a range of ships from the Second World War which will be used in dramatised documentaries. The idea is to film (or video) the static models in a dry studio, and to composite the images together with real seascapes from film shot in the 1930's and 1940's. The whole thing is then going to be blended together using Computer Generated Imagery (CGI).


Also, did you answer below? 


Morning John,
Sounds a great project to be involved in!
I was always led to believe that most model "boats" used in film work were Not radio controlled, i.e. tracked or mechanically tethered in some way so as not allow the model not to drift out of focus and repeatability of the shot, how comes these models will be RC?



Thanks,
 Admin

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John Stedman

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2017, 11:37:34 AM »

Is the full size k7replica in the Lakeland (?) museum the same one that was used in the TV film "Across the Lake" ?   The K4 was a prettier craft with all the trappings of  Golden Age nostalgia of the 1930s.
The very kind Hazel at the Lakeland Motor Museum has just confirmed that their Bluebird K7 replica is indeed the very same one that was used in the 1988 film 'Across The Lake'. The museum is in Backbarrow in Cumbria, and definitely looks worth a visit.
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John Stedman

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #154 on: January 22, 2017, 12:36:01 PM »

After detailed discussions with my fellow Producers and the Director of the forthcoming film 'Campbell', I've made the decision that we will be creating the imagery of Bluebird K7 in action in a very similar way to that which we used for HMS Hood. It is the most effective and efficient way to get the results we need. So the plan is to build a fairly large (and very accurate)  static model of K7, film it on a Model Mover, and composite the images onto the background film which has already been shot at Coniston. The other 'particle effects' of water spray, jet blast and heat haze will be added with CGI. Since I'm satisfied that we have already proved the concept with the successful Hood tests, I am confident that this is the best way to proceed.

Now we just have to make sure that our model of K7 is precisely the right shape. In the movie it will be juxtaposed with close-up shots of the real restored Bluebird, so it's vital that they match in every respect. However, we checked through the 'blueprints' which are available, but found not only did they all differ from each other, but none of them fully matched the photographs of the boat. None of the kits or scratchbuilt models of K7 look fully accurate either. So we are going to go back to first principles and using a technique called photogrammetry to get it right. This technique 'undoes' any distortion caused by perspective or lens distortion, can produce a three-view or five view drawing to any scale we need, or even output the coordinates directly to a cutting, carving or 3D printing machine. Choosing as many identifiable fixed points on the hull and sponsons as we can, we'll establish their positions in three dimensions from all the clear photographs of the real K7 we can find, then use the data to create an accurate lines drawing, body plan and detail illustrations. We'll be using customised software which we're very familiar with because we use it every day in our main work as architects.


Because Bluebird was a relatively small craft and, on her World Record attempts, was usually filmed from a considerable distance, we may be able to make a relatively small model, say 1:6 scale, and not have depth of field issues. But if the Director wants to have shots of the boat at high speed in close-up, which seems quite likely, it will have to be about 1:3. Still, once we have the accurate shape in the computer, the hard work is done for the Pre-Production phase. Bluebird will be much simpler than Hood to manufacture, and I'm estimating that construction will take about four days in total, once we get cracking.


Anyone who is saddened by the news that we won't be using a real fire-breathing turbojet engine on this project may like to find solace in another Model Boat Mayhem thread that I started yesterday. It's called 'Jetex Rocket Motors' and is looking at the the scary prospect of building a new kind of model boat that could travel much faster than Donald Campbell ever did. Be afraid. Be very afraid...
 
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C-3PO

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #155 on: January 22, 2017, 12:49:21 PM »

An interesting web link about this subject

http://modelshipsinthecinema.com/wp/
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John Stedman

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #156 on: January 22, 2017, 01:24:50 PM »

An interesting web link about this subject

http://modelshipsinthecinema.com/wp/
Some interesting 'oldies' are featured here, and many of the practical effects techniques used by Industrial Light & Magic in 1990 to make 'The Hunt for Red October' are still current. But it was a movie released in the following year, 'Terminator 2: Judgement Day', which announced the arrival of fully fledged believable CGI on the big screen and was a gamechanger for model effects in the cinema industry. Another significant step came with 'Black Hawk Down', which brought in very convincing 'AR' (Augmented Reality), in which the special effects teams developed a technique almost like a videogame where they could, for example, 'shoot' a wall on the screen and the computer would add elements of real bullet strikes, CGI dust clouds and flying debris to the image. Most of our work at the moment is AR based, since it is the simplest way to get the audience to believe that what they are seeing is real. And we try to not over-complicate things because film-making is tricky enough already!
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BFSMP

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #157 on: January 22, 2017, 01:43:25 PM »



you seem to be avoiding the site owner's questions Mr Stedman, which are well founded questions.


I myself have asked for simple photographs of fittings as have other members and you avoid those requests like the plague, and it is no wonder that there are those on here who are becoming very dubious of your motives.


COULD YOU PLEASE DISPLAY SOME PHOTOS ............this is not hard to understand or deal with as I would love to see the photos of a 12 foot model of a mighty capital ship that was constructed in TWO days.


I couldn't construct an airfix model of Hood in 2 days, let alone a 12' beasty.


Jim.
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John W E

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #158 on: January 22, 2017, 01:50:07 PM »

Looking forward to seeing your replies as said already - disregarding requests from our leader is quite unwise - unless you are remaking the Yellow Brick Road fairy tale :-)  ok2 - you are leading us all down this road I bagsy being the lion :-)
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plastic

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #159 on: January 22, 2017, 01:58:15 PM »


COULD YOU PLEASE DISPLAY SOME PHOTOS ............this is not hard to understand or deal with as I would love to see the photos of a 12 foot model of a mighty capital ship that was constructed in TWO days.


That was also good enough to fool test audiences on a huge screen....
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Netleyned

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #160 on: January 22, 2017, 02:50:27 PM »

In the RN, we had a saying,
If you have a black cat I have a bigger
Blacker one.
Called Blackcatting
My mate was called Panther 8)


Always wondered why %)


Ned
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BFSMP

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #161 on: January 22, 2017, 02:55:47 PM »


In the RN, we had a saying,
If you have a black cat I have a bigger
Blacker one.
Called Blackcatting
My mate was called Panther 8)
Always wondered why %)
Ned.


you have me totally puzzled there, Ned, could you please explain. I have lead a very sheltered life, :embarrassed: {:-{
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Netleyned

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #162 on: January 22, 2017, 03:04:01 PM »

Simple Jim,
You have a very nice model boat.
The Black catter looks at it and says
I have a bigger better one of those.
But, you never see it <:(


Ned
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Davev333

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #163 on: January 22, 2017, 03:17:56 PM »


Wow this thread i will have to read throughly as i have only really flicked though because the jist of it building a 12ft boat on a 3d printer in 2 day. Just astounds me. I'm no expert but i think most good 3d printers "not home ones" max out at 150mm per sec until the quality is really bad, and even at that suffer from problem.
 I can't even guess how many meters would be needed but lots and at great expense, so in 2 days,  12 feet boat absolutely amazing !


Please please show me some pictures
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #164 on: January 22, 2017, 05:37:28 PM »

Come on guys don't spoil a really good thread.  {:-{
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Arrow5

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #165 on: January 22, 2017, 05:48:40 PM »

I agree. Give the thread a break, stimulates and gets us out of a rut.   Also  Beeb 4 tonight 9pm Britannic Disaster, who made the models ? :embarrassed:.
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BFSMP

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #166 on: January 22, 2017, 06:11:43 PM »


I agree. Give the thread a break, stimulates and gets us out of a rut.   Also  Beeb 4 tonight 9pm Britannic Disaster, who made the models ? :embarrassed: .


Gentlemen. even the forum owner, by his own questions on the last page is questioning in a round about way, the validity of this information being fed to everyone.
After all, who has ever heard of anyone holding a patent on a scratch built model thus preventing photos of it or parts of it being shown.


Jim. the straw man.
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John W E

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #167 on: January 22, 2017, 06:24:30 PM »

Wouldn't you think any Company worth its salt would have a portfolio of items they have done - to show prospective new customers.   In this industry once the work is done, surely it isn't governed by any Secrets Acts or the likes/ all we are asking is show something from what you have done in the past which hast your name to it - so we can have some belief in it.   Cos some of the literature being produced doesn't ring true to some of us.

John the Lion :-)
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Charlie

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #168 on: January 22, 2017, 06:42:13 PM »

I'm looking forward to the finished Documentary being released, which by my reckoning will be right at the beginning of April  {-) {-) {-) {-)

TheLongBuild

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #169 on: January 22, 2017, 06:56:19 PM »

Has any mention of the Op's Production Company been made ?. Ie the name ..   or Past Productions ?.

Colin Bishop

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #170 on: January 22, 2017, 06:57:57 PM »

No, I was looking for that too - one would reasonably assume that the company has a website promoting its business, it's pretty much essential these days.

Colin
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plastic

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #171 on: January 22, 2017, 07:02:38 PM »

I googled his name in connection with the film industry some days ago - the only result was a training video from 1979 - I'm sure it can't be a match.
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BFSMP

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #172 on: January 22, 2017, 07:16:12 PM »


I notice that he has gone very quiet and has not replied to any of these  posts since this afternoon when last on line at 16.31 hours. AND YET this was more than 3 hours after Martin posted the questions asking for answers to rc in a model, and requesting photos. :((


Jim.
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Stavros

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #173 on: January 22, 2017, 08:15:41 PM »

Well it seems ive been moderated




This is my cousins company


http://www.datalog.co.uk/browse/detail.php/CompanyNumber/09484488/CompanyName/TKW+FILMS+UK+LTD.


Odd isnt it THAT NO ONE has heard of this chap......


Odd as well he hasnt got the manners to answer Martin the Site Owner....unbeleivable




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Arrow5

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Re: Building models for filming
« Reply #174 on: January 22, 2017, 08:29:05 PM »

Maybe he is just away for the weekend {:-{     Don't forget 9pm Britannic on BBC 4 , could be some models in it  :embarrassed:
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