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Author Topic: Armed Launch Plans help  (Read 7802 times)

raflaunches

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Armed Launch Plans help
« on: January 17, 2017, 11:57:27 pm »

hi everyone


I'm currently reading The Forgotten Flotilla, and Mimi and Toutou Go Forth, about the Battle of Lake Tanganika and Spicer-Simpson.


I'm wondering if anyone knows if there are any plans of the two 40ft launches used in the battle against the SMS Kingani and later on SMS Hedwig Von Wissmann gunboats. According to the first book they were built for the Greek Navy as seaplane tenders but bought by the RN for this mission. There is a nice model on a German website which isn't 100% accurate according to the pictures I've seen of Mimi and Toutou but very close but he didn't say how he came up with hull plans. They're so different to the usual types of launch from WW1 and the story behind them is interesting (and funny) that Dad and I are considering building them. :-)
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Nick B

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colin-d

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 04:40:53 am »

Hi Nick,
if you give me the link to the German website, or the exact wording for the search...
I can ask him in his native tongue..  :-))

modify time ..
ok... I have found a German and a Dutch website with models..
the German website built his model at a scale of 1:14..
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TailUK

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 08:40:03 am »

This one?
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colin-d

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 09:03:14 am »

... I would think that would be a NO...  those plans are from "Hedwig von Wissmann" which was sunk by the Armed Launches HMS Mimi and HMS Fifi
I think he is looking for this one..



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TailUK

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 01:37:23 pm »

I actually meant is that the German boat he mentioned!  The RN boats were  40Ft Motor Launches built by Thorneycroft.
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tonyH

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 01:57:13 pm »

Hi Nick,


It just happens that I've tried to find the same and the best I could come up with was a copy of the original Thornycroft sales brochure for two launches for the Greek Air Ministry. They were the original customers before the boats were 'pinched' BUT the boats are 45ft. There is nothing else in the Thornycroft Archives (Southampton library) and I could't find anything at Greenwich apart from the usual photos.
I'll pull out what I've got later and see if I can get a reasonable scan.


It's definitely a great story


Cheers 
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tonyH

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 07:50:11 pm »

Here is part of the info from Southampton.

Front sheet from the Thornycroft advertising brochure plus basic details of the 50ft launch(Yes I know!)
Plus a photo from a museum magazine picked up from Portsmouth on the same trip.

The only evidence I have that these are Mimi and Toutou is that I couldn't find any other similar builds for the Greek government in the Thornycroft build ledgers.
That said, I was actually looking into a totally unrelated 'cunning plan' and didn't spend too much time on this.

I think I remember from one of the Google sources (or the book) that the length was modified to fit the flat cars used for part of the journey so that would explain the back end and if the most of the foredeck was cut down to the rubbing strip you'd get the line in the photo. Remove the rear saloon and you have the possible boats.

No guarantee I'm afraid :-))

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raflaunches

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 07:57:54 pm »

Hi Guys


Thanks for the rapid responses!  :-))


Tony- anything you can get would be fantastic.


Colin- Thanks for the offer, if you can that would be great.


TailUK- yes thats the second german gunboat the armed launch HMS Mimi engaged with the captured Kingani renamed HMS Fifi.


The second battle actually inspired the film 'The African Queen' starring Humpfrey Bogart and Audrey Hepburn. The model made by the German modeller is stuningly close to the pictures and book descriptions of Mimi and Toutou but there is something he didn't pick up on as I don't know if he read 'The Phantom Flotilla'. The figure with the beard is supposed to be Lt-Cmdr Spicer-Simson but he is incorrectly dressed- quite literally!!! During the whole campaign he wore a skirt! Not a kilt, a skirt! Also the figures are both wearing Khaki uniforms but Spicer-Simson wanted something different- He wanted standard Khaki shorts and socks with black boots. For the tunic it was navy blue with light blue epulettes and a pith helmet! Each man and officer were armed with a naval cutlass. According to the books he was a man who was court-martialled for wrecking his own ships, an inveterate liar and a wearer of skirts!
An amazing story of mad englishmen and impossible journies across the South-East countires of Africa dragging two small gunboats on railways and through the jungles.
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 08:04:08 pm »

Hi Tony


That's fantastic, I can see exactly what you mean- it wouldn't take much to modify them to suit Spicer-Simson's plans. I was after the basic hull shape to get an idea of the hull lines. You can see the layout and side profile matches the shape you can see in some of the pictures of Mimi and Toutou sitting on their wagons being dragged through the jungle.
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Nick B

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tonyH

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 08:09:51 pm »

Nick, just Google "Mimi and Toutou" and loads of photos appear, especially of a very good museum model somewhere in Holland.
If you manage to find out where it is a pal of mine is happy to get further photos if poss.
Meanwhile, I'm happy to send you all my hard copy stuff if you'd like. Send pm if you want it.

Cheers

Tony
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raflaunches

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 08:35:21 pm »

Hi Tony


Pm sent. :-))
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Nick B

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TailUK

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 09:48:46 am »

Here is part of the info from Southampton.

Front sheet from the Thornycroft advertising brochure plus basic details of the 50ft launch(Yes I know!)
Plus a photo from a museum magazine picked up from Portsmouth on the same trip.

The only evidence I have that these are Mimi and Toutou is that I couldn't find any other similar builds for the Greek government in the Thornycroft build ledgers.
That said, I was actually looking into a totally unrelated 'cunning plan' and didn't spend too much time on this.

I think I remember from one of the Google sources (or the book) that the length was modified to fit the flat cars used for part of the journey so that would explain the back end and if the most of the foredeck was cut down to the rubbing strip you'd get the line in the photo. Remove the rear saloon and you have the possible boats.

No guarantee I'm afraid :-))

It seems to me that the boat shown in the plan is the spitting image of Tommy Sopwith's "Bluebird of Chelsea" although she was 52 ft it might provide you with a starting point.
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Allnightin

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 12:19:03 pm »

This is a subject I had always been interested in and there definitely seems to have been some useful info discovered in the last few posts.  It would be particularly useful to find more on the museum model on the Dutch website - anyone familiar with naval museums there that can suggest where it might be?  Noting that the caption on the model base is in English is it possible that the museum is actually one in UK instead?

Another participant in the Lake Tanganyika campaign was the steamer Graf Goetzen, still in service as the Liemba.  There is a good card model of her in 1/250th which I am tempted to scale up for RC to perhaps 1/72nd

http://sklep.gpm.pl/en/previews/graf-goetzen-1/250
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tonyH

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 02:44:09 pm »

Apparently, it's in the Art Gallery of Ontario :o
http://www.ago.net/agoid106379

The Dutch bit is a blind!

Dunno if it's still there but if there are any Mayhemmers in the area?

 
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Allnightin

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 06:37:23 pm »

That is a formidable bit of cyber detection I reckon!

the AGO website has a map of all the models and it is shown as on display so looks well worth asking any Toronto based modellers if they could look in and take some photos - perhaps also ask on Steelnavy and ModelWarships forums as well?
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Allnightin

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 08:38:15 pm »

Better still, the audio tour of the AGO collection has a side on view that looks very useful (track 14)



Francis
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raflaunches

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 08:48:52 pm »

That's a nice helpful photo of her, Francis  :-))


Thanks for finding that. What a wonderful shape. :-)
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Nick B

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dodes

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2017, 09:19:13 pm »

Cannot wait to see your finished product Nick.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2017, 09:20:54 pm »

That is a nice touch. A sting in her tail from a Maxim.

That would look amazing in 1:12th scale.
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TailUK

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 02:58:00 pm »

I found this while I was looking for something else.  If nothing else it's worth a look as it's a beautiful model.
 http://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/mitglieder/modelle/kingani/
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raflaunches

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 10:17:43 pm »

Now that it is one beautiful looking boat, and model. Hopefully my little network of helpers might be able to get some plans of the Mimi/Toutou. Fingers crossed  :-))
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: Armed Launch Plans help
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2023, 02:50:40 pm »

Time to renew the topic!
As per the last post from 6 years ago I did get a set of drawings from a friendly modeller a few years back. Dad and I built the Mimi to 1/12 scale and itís been an interesting build. She has some very delicate P-brackets to support the prop shafts which I have had to repair twice already.
See pictures for a flooded WPMBC lake run. :-))
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