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Author Topic: TID tug colours - WW2.  (Read 15544 times)

zooma

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TID tug colours - WW2.
« on: March 06, 2017, 09:00:02 pm »

A couple of years ago I bought a s/h TID tug to get me started at my new local model boat club and although it has performed well enough I was never too convinced about its accuracy and to be honest the build quality was rough and was best viewed from a distance.


However it did have a nice glass fibre hull so late last year I sent away for a 1/24 scale set of plans for the TID tug and set about tracing the outlines, making templates from old cereal packets and cutting the parts from 60 thou plastic card.


The hull was stripped and treated to a new plastic card deck, the superstructure was thrown away and I have now completed a new superstructure and built it as one of the early variants without an enclosed cabin.


For my first attempt at building from plan and at using plastic card I am quite happy with the way it has turned out as it is accurate to plan and now "looks right" but I am having some difficulty in finding out what colours were used on these early types during their WW2 service life.


Many of the grey painted TID models that I have seen have been sprayed with Halfords primer and simply varnished to give a mid grey finish and others have been painted in a very pale shade of grey - but some of the pictures of real TID tugs I have seen show the use of both light grey overall (like the light sky grey from Tamiya) and a slightly darker grey overall (like the slightly green tinted light sea grey from Tamiya)  - and some have been camouflaged !


Some decks have been painted green, others brown and some are in the same grey as the superstructure. 


Most wartime pictures of TID tugs are in black and white making it difficult to accurately identify the true painted colours and I know that wartime supplies of paint sometimes dictated the colours that were used ( and some were possibly re-painted whilst in service) - but all of the variants would appeal to me more than just leaving it in primer - even though it looks OKish and would save a lot of time !


If anyone can help me know what colours were used on the TID tugs that served during WW2 I would be very grateful to hear from you.






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Stavros

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 10:18:03 pm »

Nothing really diffinitive on the colour scheme tbh have you seen this


http://www.medwaymaritimetrust.org.uk/tidtugs/pages/tidlist.html


Maybee Dodes or Shipmate 60 will come along and enlighten us


Dave
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 12:01:29 am »

Unlikely to have been green decks as the RN didn't use that colour for decks in WW2.  There was also a shortage of green pigment in WW2 which is why the RN dropped using any green in their paints.


Maybe someone thought the decks were covered in semtex which could come in various colours.


Most likely going on what warships had is a medium to dark grey for the decks and a light grey for the weather works.


I'd love to see a photo of a camouflaged one.
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 12:04:33 am »

Thanks Dave,


I see some of the TID tugs went to the War Dept. (Army)  and some to the US army too!


The picture of TID 20 at Sword beach is interesting - I wonder if the TIDs that went to the US service were in darker colours - like their PT boats perhaps ?


Maybe the slightly darker ( and with a hint of green) light sea grey paint was a possibility?
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 12:06:49 am »

Unlikely to have been green decks as the RN didn't use that colour for decks in WW2.  There was also a shortage of green pigment in WW2 which is why the RN dropped using any green in their paints.


Maybe someone thought the decks were covered in semtex which could come in various colours.


Most likely going on what warships had is a medium to dark grey for the decks and a light grey for the weather works.


I'd love to see a photo of a camouflaged one.
 


There is a picture of an early camouflaged r/c model TID  with open bridge like mine  - if you type TID tugs on Google you can see it there.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 12:11:24 am »

Yes but is there a photo of an actual TID tug in camouflage? The RN did actually set out in writing camo schemes for the larger ocean going tugs but nothing listed for a TID.
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Shipmate60

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 08:02:29 am »

During the War paint could be in short supply so there was not a "definitive" color.
The tugs were painted grey, whatever the nearest color to hand as tugs did not have the highest priority.


Bob
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TailUK

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 08:23:48 am »

http://www.medwaymaritimetrust.org.uk/pages/story01.htm

The link is to a page on the Medway Trust site that documents a TID in US Army service with some good pictures, unfortunately none in colour.
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 09:22:16 am »

Yes but is there a photo of an actual TID tug in camouflage? The RN did actually set out in writing camo schemes for the larger ocean going tugs but nothing listed for a TID.


I have only seen a camouflage  scheme on this one TID model - it may have been a fanciful paint scheme that the builder added to "personalise" their model - but maybe they have  seen a reference to one - perhaps when in tropical service?


It certainly looks different and if it were found to be "authentic" it would make a nice unusual TID colour scheme but I am thinking various (non camouflaged) shades of grey are the only variants that I am likely to find and guess those used by US Army are the most likely to throw up some interesting shades - if they kept them long enough to paint them !
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 09:46:13 am »

http://www.medwaymaritimetrust.org.uk/pages/story01.htm

The link is to a page on the Medway Trust site that documents a TID in US Army service with some good pictures, unfortunately none in colour.


Thanks for this link - a very interesting reference to an early "open cockpit" TID in US Army service with some good pictures showing some interesting detail - including the "tin-lid" cockpit cover with tubular support posts and the frame shape for the canvas screens.


As you say no colour references, but the pictures suggest that darker shades of grey may well have been used as well as the more familiar light grey shades.  The pictures also show just how dirty these tugs would have been when in daily active service and this has given me some good ideas for "weathering" - once I have determined an authentic shade of grey paint to use.


I admit that a slightly darker grey (such as light sea grey) does appeal as it would make my TID just a little different from the other TID models I have seen - but I do not want to use it if it was never used in real life.


The chances are that it could have been used as it was an existing colour already in wartime use when a shortage of paint may have caused almost anything to be used if it was available - from any source!
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TailUK

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 11:15:10 am »

Chances are that the tug in question was Dark Admiralty Grey but in US service may have found patches of Olive Drab touch up.  It's certain that being coal fired they would have very grimy!
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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 05:06:01 pm »

Chances are that the tug in question was Dark Admiralty Grey but in US service may have found patches of Olive Drab touch up.  It's certain that being coal fired they would have very grimy!
 


That could make a camouflage look :)
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Jonty

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 07:43:37 pm »

  In home waters probably AP507A or its later equivalents (MS2 or G10, near enough Humbrol 27 or 112) all over with decks (unless laid with Semtex - colours included 'dirty tan', blue or green) the same AP507A.
  In the Mediterranean and other sunny areas AP507C (later MS4A or G45, roughly Humbrol 28 or 147) with decks (if not Semtex) AP507A or later the even darker MS1 or G5.
  It is also possible that an Admiralty Alternative scheme consisting of dark hull and light upperworks may have been used on occasion.
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Jonty

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 10:11:57 pm »

  Though, on second thoughts, were the TIDs anything to do with the Admiralty? Some were loaned to the RN, but they were built and operated by the Ministry of War Transport. So your guess is as good as mine.
  Actually (just rambling here), maybe they were painted in MSS (Merchant Ship Sides) which was quite a bit lighter than AP507A and might account for why so many pictures of TIDs seem to be of a light hue.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 10:26:14 pm »

Jonty is right, the 507A, 507C colours were all Admiralty Grade paint and quite durable. In 1941, they introduced MSS (Merchant Ship Side) reflectance 14% and MSD (Merchant Ship Deck) for merchant ships. This paint was commercially available paint. MSD had a reflectance of 11%. Early 1943, they dropped MSS for Light MSS with a reflectance of 40%. As most photos of tugs around that time seem to be light grey. Id say that is the TID colour.
[/size]Tugs were MOWT. [/font]
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2017, 10:27:16 pm »

Weird, the MSD didn't load.
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2017, 11:22:52 pm »

Thanks for all the advice - and the reasoning behind the advice as well.


Most TID tug pictures I have seen are a light grey colour and would fall in with your conclusions, so I guess the dark coloured TID tugs that we see pictured may have been over-painted at a later date?


The US Army ones (and some others) that I have seen also look very dark (even allowing for them all being very grubby!) so they must have been given a "local paint job" - or perhaps as already suggested - the shortage of paint may have caused some TID tugs to leave the ship yards without the correct light shade of grey that most of the fleet received.



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Daleb

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2017, 11:39:02 pm »

Perhaps the title should be changed to "50 Shades Of Grey"  :-)  Sorry, I couldn't resist... Seriously I love a TID tug...good luck with your build
Dale
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 12:06:56 am »

Thanks for all the advice - and the reasoning behind the advice as well.


Most TID tug pictures I have seen are a light grey colour and would fall in with your conclusions, so I guess the dark coloured TID tugs that we see pictured may have been over-painted at a later date?
/quote]


You might find the dark coloured photos were post war when the trend was black hulls. Those in the RMAS seem to have adopted the RNAS black & buff colours.
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 12:17:15 am »




TID 20 was pictured at Sword beach in June 1944 and was a very dark colour.


She was with the US Army at this time I believe.

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Jonty

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 12:30:25 am »

  Worth looking carefully at the photos in the Medway Trust TID list. Admiralty ones flew the white ensign, but no indication about the others.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 03:18:55 am »

Not sure if this helps or not but the US Coast Guard manned some vessels at D Day including landing craft. This colour photo from their website looks like there is a tug sitting in the UK beforehand coded 87 which is in standard US Navy Dark Blue Grey. The numbers could all just have been on there to help matters at D Day rather than being the normal number/pennant they carried.
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zooma

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 07:55:22 am »

Thanks for posting that really helpful picture and for identifying the colour used - this does show that the US painted their tugs in a dark grey that may well be the dark colour I can see on the black and white pictures of some of the early TID tugs that were used by them.
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mudway

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 07:59:37 am »

I'd say that is blue not grey. One trick though, we know that USN landing craft quite often used RN paint.   {:-{
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TailUK

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Re: TID tug colours - WW2.
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 08:56:03 am »

Not sure if this helps or not but the US Coast Guard manned some vessels at D Day including landing craft. This colour photo from their website looks like there is a tug sitting in the UK beforehand coded 87 which is in standard US Navy Dark Blue Grey. The numbers could all just have been on there to help matters at D Day rather than being the normal number/pennant they carried.

Fairly certain that that is another Landing Craft Infantry (Large) ship not a tug.  The dead giveaway is the large anchor on the stern which was for the LCI to pull it's self off the beach.  The colour appears to be USN 20B Blue.
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