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Author Topic: Temporary pools  (Read 2860 times)

canalpilot

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Temporary pools
« on: March 15, 2017, 10:10:38 PM »

Help!!!  We have been invited to a show in July and been asked to put up a  temporary boating pool.  I have seen such pools on youtube but have no experience in making one. 
I would be glad of any suggestions or help to enable us to do this. Hay bales and pool liner appear to be a good method, but how big should it be, what minimum size would be adequate for good displaying, how do you fill it, how do you empty it.  What size is a hay bale?, how much overlap do you need for the pool liner.  Do you need to have a rope around the outside of the haybales.  Any help, no matter how small, would be gratefully appreciated.
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ballastanksian

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 10:32:47 PM »

Hi Canal Pilot, Just a couple of points:

Are the show organisers insured for this? Have they considered the weight of water and where the pond is to be sited? I recall a topic on this last year, or at least temporary pools were discussed.

The pool erected at the South West model show (Bath and West Showground) in 2015 collapsed sending a torrent of water into the sports hall where the Model truckers and micro aircraft were operating. I cannot recall the effect or damage it caused especially as there were traders with kit boxes etc that could and possibly did get water damaged. The pool was at least two bales high and while not large it was deep.

I think it is a great idea to be able to show model ships in their natural environment but do make sure the organisers are aware of the risks and liabilities. Further information from experienced members here will give you many practical pointers to be able to help yourself and the organisers.
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Plastic-1

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 06:02:09 AM »

I've seen them done using extension ladders as the frame laid on their sides and tied together at the corners and with a pond liner.
Not very deep but quite rigid.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 09:21:35 AM »

A lot depends on the size of liner available.  The max size then becomes the size of liner less twice the side height plus whatever you decide is needed for the overhang.  The weight of water keeps the liner in place provided that the walls do not get moved by the weight of water as it fills, the sideways force increases with the depth.  Memories of Norcalympia (Blackpool) about 10 years ago, a foot of water exerts a lot of sideways force, later efforts used restraining lines or straps in a noughts and crosses pattern to help keep the sides in place and straight.
Is this going to be an indoor or outdoor pool?  Indoors, emptying in a tidy manner is a problem.  Outdoors, dropping a side panel and playing the Dam Busters March is usually OK.  In round figures, a 20 foot square pool with a foot of water in it is about 20 tons of water to control and eventually lose.  Filling with a pipe takes time unless you can access a fire hydrant.  Site owners tend to be a bit picky about things like that.
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Captain Flack

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 10:19:18 AM »

And unless you have permission or the hydrant itself has a different designated use (ie for building works etc.) its illegal to use a fire hydrant for anything other than firefighting.  Most other water supplies are generally metered.  The extension ladder and liners are a good option, very rigid but not particularly deep. so restrictive on what draught boat can use it.
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kinmel

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 10:41:12 AM »

And unless you have permission or the hydrant itself has a different designated use (ie for building works etc.) its illegal to use a fire hydrant for anything other than firefighting.  Most other water supplies are generally metered.  The extension ladder and liners are a good option, very rigid but not particularly deep. so restrictive on what draught boat can use it.

For private use of a public fire hydrant, or washout you need to rent the standpipe, key&bar from your local water company. The rental cost includes a permit and an agreed volume of water.   If you open the valve too much, rust particles and sludge in the mains are disturbed and you end up with coloured water  :((   If you are really unlucky you will disturb so much debris that the water to premises becomes discoloured and that is a very expensive cost for you.

If it for a good cause, a quiet word at the local fire station often works, just ask for the watch manager.
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Captain Flack

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 05:42:25 PM »

Unless the rules have changed, any use of a fire hydrant needed to be communicated to the local Fire Service Control, so that should the local residents end up with discoloured washing, as a result of using a hydrant, the local Water Company were aware of its use, and would stand any recompense.  This is a litigious society in which we live and people are always looking to "sue" someone else for some reason. ie discloured or ruined clothing from the washing machine.
The days of favours are, I think, long gone, unfortunately.   I have done it myself but that was some 12-15 years ago, and as I said the rules may have changed.  They probably have, but not for the better probably.

You can use a couple of liners by utilising a double fold where they join.  The weight of the water will keep them together if done properly.
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gregk9

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 06:11:49 PM »

i would definately have a second word [or three] with the organisers, just to definately make sure they know the full consequences. What volume of water may be involved and of course risk factors "in the unlikely event of" so to speak.
remember if members of the public are going to get close, a safety barrier will also be needed, and the inevitable "risk asessment" may be asked for off their insurance company.
yes as said before,  going to take time to fill and then again, you have to have facility to empty again afterwards. plus asking loads of people to form a bucket chain in either direction soon gets tedious....if they wanna play ball.

the easiest option ive often thought about is video footage of club sailing....this only take a screen, plus dvd player or mp3/4 player, still gives the public view of what goes on....and no wet feet either.

best of luck with whatever you decide on and hope all goes well.
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Big Ada

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 06:16:01 PM »

Help!!!  We have been invited to a show in July and been asked to put up a  temporary boating pool.  I have seen such pools on youtube but have no experience in making one. 
I would be glad of any suggestions or help to enable us to do this. Hay bales and pool liner appear to be a good method, but how big should it be, what minimum size would be adequate for good displaying, how do you fill it, how do you empty it.  What size is a hay bale?, how much overlap do you need for the pool liner.  Do you need to have a rope around the outside of the haybales.  Any help, no matter how small, would be gratefully appreciated.

As you have Not put your location with your Profile, we have no idea where in the World you live, so it would be difficult to provide answers for different Countries.
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plastic

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 06:28:18 PM »

As a slight point of interest - how deep do we think the water needs to be for RC boat displays? Depth makes a huge impact on the water volume required.

I would have thought that 6" would be plenty - what do others think?

6" = 7sqm/m3 of water.
6m x 6m = 5m3 volume.
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Netleyned

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 06:28:55 PM »

Not far from Ellesmere Port
I would have thought %%


Ned
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JIM WORNER

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2017, 08:59:44 PM »

Have you considered the largest of the inflatable paddling pools?
Tesco list a 10ft framed pool for 80, or an 8ft inflatable for 29.
Or do you need something bigger? If so perhaps the Blackpool team can advise.
Good luck
Jim
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cos918

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2017, 09:00:14 PM »

As a slight point of interest - how deep do we think the water needs to be for RC boat displays? Depth makes a huge impact on the water volume required.

I would have thought that 6" would be plenty - what do others think?

6" = 7sqm/m3 of water.
6m x 6m = 5m3 volume.


Double that to 30 cms min . Have to include hull squat . Some tugs have deep draft . + say 20 cms above the water line your needing a pool about 50 cms high .


John
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JIM WORNER

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 08:56:17 AM »

If you want something bigger; talk to your local scaffolding company, they could set up a rigid frame for your liner, possibly free in return for a little advertising sign?
Good luck
Jim :-))
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 09:54:22 AM »

Have you considered the largest of the inflatable paddling pools?
Tesco list a 10ft framed pool for 80, or an 8ft inflatable for 29.
Or do you need something bigger? If so perhaps the Blackpool team can advise.
Good luck
Jim
I already did, Jim.
8ft allows a demonstration that a model can float, 10ft that it can sort of move.  The 24ft one that we used for several years is about the best compromise between reasonable sailing and floor space taken, but using a pipe connected to a tap, filling to about 9 inches takes many hours and required the help of the buildings overnight security to keep an eye on it.  Last year, the 24ft one having vanished along with its owner and previous show organizer, a 16ft one was hired, but we are hoping for a return to the larger size.
The double fold method of joining is OK for an outdoor venue - I would not want the responsibility indoors unless the place was a converted outdoor venue, as was the case with the Olympia (Winter Gardens) which was an outdoor fairground before it gained a roof.  Handling large waterproof sheets takes practice, and really, you only get one shot.
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Captain Flack

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 10:20:14 AM »

Filling it is easy, emptying it is normally the problem, unless you're outside, and have somewhere that can take a mini tsunami when you drop a corner of the liner.
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canalpilot

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2017, 07:11:29 PM »

Very many thanks to everyone for all your input.  The pool will be outside on a concrete base and will be about 12 to 15 inches deep and we are using a 20m x 10m pool liner and straw bales and yes we are somewhere near Ellesmere Port!!!  Hopefully the pool will be available for three separate shows. 
Watch this space and I will let you know how we get on!!!!!
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 08:10:14 PM »

Filling it is easy, emptying it is normally the problem, unless you're outside, and have somewhere that can take a mini tsunami when you drop a corner of the liner.
Just found a club archive shot of the Norbreck water departing.

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 08:12:18 PM »

Definitely pee and oh!
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2017, 08:45:48 AM »

That lake in front of the white car wasn't there before we started.  Mind, the ramp was very clean afterwards.
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Stavros

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2017, 09:27:20 AM »

10 mins later it had gone


We had our new pool up.in Coalville last weekend 24x16 filled to a depth of 10 ins and had a couple of Yachts sailing in it for Blackpool it will be 24x24


Dave
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imsinking

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2017, 09:35:56 AM »

A pic of the Coalville pool . . .

I dont think insurance is a problem for outdoor pools? I could be wrong . . .
Bill
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Stavros

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2017, 09:38:50 AM »

Anyone like to calculate how many litres it holds....24feet x 24feet x 14ins deep


Dave
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Paul2407

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2017, 09:45:24 AM »

Approx 18,140 litre, I wonder if the passat was sold with flood damage later  ;)
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Stavros

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Re: Temporary pools
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2017, 10:02:06 AM »

Ha ha thats mine......water didnt even go near it when i emptied it.....think the hosepipe in the Norbreck will be running for a wee while eh Malcs....


Dave
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