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Author Topic: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers  (Read 2955 times)

Tug Captain

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Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« on: April 26, 2017, 05:52:39 pm »

I am on along time project building a 1:100 scale bulk carrier with working cargo hatch covers. The full size ship has five hatches and each hatch cover is made up of two hinged parts which are pulled aside to allow acces for loading/unloading.


My present solution to operate the covers: One servo open the hatch by pulling the hinged covers together - one servo pull the covers the other way to close the hatch. As each hatch is made up of two hinged covers it means 4 servos per hatch or 20 servos altogether. neither space required for the servos or weight of the servos are problematic - the hull is large but I think there are other ways to operate the covers.


Your input, suggestions and ideas are more than welcome
Regards
claes

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Big Ada

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 06:24:06 pm »

What about using a Sail Winch with an endless rope system to pull open the Hatches and then close them.

Len.
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John W E

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 07:23:23 pm »

hi there

I was contemplating a similar thing with the MacGregor hatches and having them opening and closing by remote control -  my model is 1:96 scale as well.  The hatches on this particular model (Duburg) are stacked vertically either end of the hatch openings.  I was thinking of using a continuously running servo, which I purchased from Ebay (China) to have a try out with a similar method as suggested by Big Ada.   The only problem I have encountered at the present is that the hatch covers are slightly too light and do not stack properly.   So, I am thinking of abandoning this idea and making them opening and closing manually :-)  :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))  and taking a couple of Anadin Extra .

John
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Tug Captain

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 07:15:13 am »

Len,
the problem is that when the hatches are closed they lock each other. To open the covers the hinge must be put upwards to create and angle and the the covers can be pulled open. To close the covers is easier as the hinged cover can be pulled back in position. So your suggestion is partly ok but does not work 100%


I only wish I knew how to post pictures/drawings here - that would explain the problem much better than I can do with words.
Claes
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 07:39:04 am »

Seems like all that needs to be done, for a two panel hatch, is to lift or raise the
first part of the hatch, and the second panel will fold and follow it back.

If the hinge needs a bump first, you could put some kind of locking cam at  that point of
the bulwark, and it could hook and hold the door down, and when operated it would unlatch and
bump the hinged section up using the latch, or backside of the latch as a cam.

Then the servo at the back of the main door could lift and open the cargo bay

John W E

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 08:00:03 am »

Hi ya Claes

The MacGregor hatches that you refer too - are they the ones in the photograph or similar to them?

John
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derekwarner

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 08:32:30 am »

Quite a number of ships marine deck [similar to the ones shown] and tween deck hatches manufactured by Macgregor utilized Goetaverken Hinge [made under Licence]

Brilliant design :-)).......but terrible to work on  >>:-( ........ Derek
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https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiF4peljcTTAhWMnZQKHegmDiwQFggpMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fpatents%2FUS2820515&usg=AFQjCNHmuxuOd4azPXlUDANrWqzi-SRAow
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 09:59:46 am »


Hi Tug captain,

I love the idea of moving parts on our models.  Here is my version of some hatches being controlled externally. I have used servos with levers to control the actions.  I hope this inspires you to doing a better job than I did.   :}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYfD8fUYO3o

Cheers

ken


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Brian60

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 01:47:02 pm »

Hey Ken those doors in your video is the problem I am in the middle of solving at the moment! In fact I posted a query in the servo section about motor operation yesterday!

Tug Captain

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 06:11:26 pm »

Hi all and appreciate your input.
Umi,
each hatch is covered by four panels coupled two and two. Two panels are pulled forward, two aft and when they are pulled back (or fully raised) pointing skywards the loading/discharge operation can commence. You are spot on - to commence open the panels the hinge between two panels has to be raised to a certain angle before being pulled back. If not the panels lock each other and will not move.


I have solved this by fixing a lever at the end of the  first panel and the lever is operated by a servo below deck. Servo pull down the lever, panel is raised and both panels are raised to an upright position .BUT when the servo is supposed to close the panels the outer panel is upright and will not move forward. The solution (sofar) is to have a second servo pull the outer panel forward from the upright position to a slightly angled position and then the servo attached to the lever will do the rest and close both panels


Howewer, as there are five cargo holds on the model, each covered by two plus two panels I need 20 servos to open / close the hatches with the present solution. It can be done this way but I am pretty sure the are better/easier/more scale like solutions....


Ken,
What happened as your hatch cover opening sequence stopped halfway? The first mate found out the B/L was a fake or what?



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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 09:14:10 pm »


It was some time ago when I did this one but as far as I can remember it was due to the lack of servo movement .  ie,  the range was not long enough on the drive arms for it to go fully up.
To achieve the movement required would have meant an angle of 100 degrees of sweep, so I appreciate your dilemma  and why we are talking about new ideas on the problem.
 
Cheers

ken
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JimG

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 11:22:06 pm »

If you go to a large high torque servo you could probably cut the number of servos down quite a bit. Each servo could open both panels on a hatch with a suitable linkage and the panels on different hatches could be linked together. For closing connect a spring line to the outer panel to initially pull it closed until the servo linkage can take over. The spring doesn't have to be in tension for the whole movement.
I have included a quick drawing of a possible linkage.
The range of movement can be fine tuned by the relative lengths of the servo arm and the lever without needing a larger sweep on the servo.

Jim
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 05:59:51 am »

Okay, so if it opens, it just needs a kick start to close.
So at the point where the roller of the second door stops when in the fully open position there should
be a cam created. When the door opens the cam is knocked back by the door roller. Then when you
initiate the closing, the first thing that, perhaps a pin or catch on the control arm/rod triggers is the cam, to
push that roller out in the direction of closing. As you advance the control arm/rod, the second door continues to
roll closed and lay flat.

The cam, piston, or lever could be spring loaded so that it is only held open by the servo or an
 operating connection at theprimary hinge or activation lever.

This isn't correct, but something, sort of kind o', maybe, similar to, perhaps,
...
..
.

Tug Captain

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 08:31:08 pm »

Umi, I like your idea. Have been pondering along the same way but yr solution is better. Will build prototype Ii with it in mind. Will keep u posted
As wheather in Sweden has been miserably the past month will spend the next week in the south of europe - away from my hobby room. Will have plenty of time to think abt how to open/close cargo hatches. :-))
Claes
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Tug Captain

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 08:57:47 pm »

After testing the idea with a servo actuating a lever at the back of the back panel it is clear it does not work to 100 percent. The panels will open ok but the outer panel will not get close enough to the back panel in the open position.


JimG: Don't understand your "drawing" - could you explain your idea more in detail please?


I will now try a different approach wiith a chain pulling the panels together. To initiate the sequence a servo will push upwards at the hinge to create a angle. The initial trials are promissing....


Will let ya know
Claes
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Brian60

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2017, 08:38:39 am »

In jim's drawing you have a servo with its arm, top one is connected to the first door via a lever at the bottom left of the door, it pushes on that L shaped lever and the door will lift. The bottom of the servo arm because its moving 'away' from the door, is applying a pulling motion on the right side door, attached to the same 'L' type lever.

The blue and green lines I imagine are just solid connecting rods to the next set of door levers so one servo opens 2 pairs of doors. Here is a better drawing I've done of a single pair without the servo in the picture

JimG

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 02:22:42 pm »

Thanks Brian, that's basically what was intended, I tried using different colours but it probably wasn't that clear. The only thing is that the lever on the hatch can't be right angle or the door won't open fully.

Jim
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Tug Captain

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 04:44:03 pm »

Brian and JimG,
your solution to the problem is fine as long as there are only two panels per hatch. However, the model I'm building has four panels per hatch. Two panels are hinged together and that is causing the problem (which I think now is solved)  :}


Where can I find some info abt how to include photos etc in my posts???


Best
Claes



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Brian60

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2017, 09:15:14 am »

regarding photo's....

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23.0.html

But basically in your reply box after you have typed your reply. Underneath it coloured blue is a line that says attachments and other options. Click on it and a drop down menu allows you to browse for attachments such as photo's

Tug Captain

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 05:58:58 pm »

Hi again,
have been trying for some time to post a reply with a few attachments but will only get a notification that my post is too large. Don't  understand this - there are several building threads where there are several pictures included in each post without any problem. What am I doing wrong?????
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 06:29:55 pm »

Hi again,
have been trying for some time to post a reply with a few attachments but will only get a notification that my post is too large. Don't  understand this - there are several building threads where there are several pictures included in each post without any problem. What am I doing wrong?????

Resize the photo.
Reduce the size of the photo to less than 1000pixels, or six inches so
the Maximum size of the photo is less than 300k

Brian60

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Re: Functional MacGregor type cargo hatch covers
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2017, 07:00:33 pm »

Download a small program called PIXresizer. Its very self explanatory but will shrink individual or batches of photos for you to whatever size you input - I usually use 800 for the longest side and they all load here perfectly.
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