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Author Topic: HMS Agincourt build project  (Read 88917 times)

Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #350 on: November 20, 2017, 06:16:47 PM »

I have taken her to the Black Park Regatta, to test carrying the two hulls on my trolley (behind table) and assembling it on site.  With the decks still conveniently flat I stacked the halves on my trolley, with a couple of long elastic straps.
The two decker conversion should make it easier.  Half a meter is more than enough from keel to spotting tops.
At least there is a flat path from the car park.

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #351 on: November 20, 2017, 06:53:39 PM »

An issue that came to me while watching the new Poseidon film Saturday evening (Sorry  {:-{ ) is the effects of roll neutralising any benefits from fitting fenders etc. Theoretically, being a lump Agincourt should not roll as much as a small model and so be better able to be controlled except in choppy conditions, but any impact may cause wobbling and possible swiping of detail when the hull is leant over offering the guns and anti torpedo net over and/or beyond the protection. If the fenders are wide enough then this should lessen the issue.

Another thing that occurs to me is that some ponds have reeds and overhanging bushes etc and, again, this will be problematic and possibly render fenders etc innefective.

As per usual, nearly every situation will be free from any problems, but that one occasion when the power fails, or the wind picks up, or someone puts a boat in and fails to control it properly............

Wire fenders will be of minimal weight and minimal visual disturbance and may well provide just enough protection.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #352 on: November 20, 2017, 11:06:17 PM »

Bob......throughout the ages, yes....Capital ships after launching were coaled, ammunitioned, stored & manned at anchor...actual dockings alongside would been the exception over the rule

A question to ask is how long do you plan to sail the vessel each day......1 x 30 minutes.....the a cupper.....another 1 x 30 minutes then a quick walk to the loo :embarrassed:...then another 1 x 30 minutes etc

This could take up 4 or 5 hours..........you could consider manufacturing 2  wooden lattice floating blocks with soft external fenders  that could be tied off on pond walls...or stacked in the water for ponds with no deep bank

I watched BB63 Missouri berth at Garden Island just outside my office window  :o.....obviously prepared......two floating wooden blocks were placed & secure to the wharf...the out by of these were the inflated tubular fenders...so the Port side of her hull was say 15 feet off the wharf

I understand the wire hoops that Colin has suggested...my only concern is that a lighter draft vessel [dingbat captain] could still damage any protruding secondary gun mount barrels

Derek 

   
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #353 on: November 21, 2017, 08:51:03 AM »

You are correct Derek, large capital ships would only rarely have to come alongside a quay, hence the very large number of ships boats for moving personnel and stores.  Your account of USS Missouri reminds me of seeing the new HMS Queen Elizabeth II carrier enter Portsmouth for the first time.  Alongside the quay built for her were two large pontoons with inflatable fenders.

To answer your question, my usual sailing session time is two hours, which defines my battery choices.  Once on the water I tend to sail continuously, only coming alongside at the end.  Water traffic tends to be high, which has me worried as with this ship it is not going to be as easy to evade the melee of zigzagging smaller vessels.  I am currently taking tips from a new member with some lovely six foot paddle steamers.

As for overhanging braches etc, we have a member who has been known to surreptitiously bring a 7 foot tree pruning tool to alleviate this mainly yachting hazard.  Springer tugs help clear other floating debris.

With thanks to everyone’s appreciated input I think I will incorporate a balance of solutions to the fragile detail issue, knowing stuff is going to break off whatever I do.  Thin wire removable fenders plus mounting the side guns in shaped blocks of Neoprene.  I am going to have to pick my launching site carefully, away from the worst of the outward  leaning wooden posts.  A small box pontoon with foam fender may be necessary.  Bow and stern thrusters would be cheating of course  {-)

I will be working on the trolley conversion over the next couple of days.
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Klunk

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #354 on: November 21, 2017, 09:04:13 AM »

for berthing alongside your lake Bob, i  would be inclined to use 2 deep x 2 long pool noodles
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #355 on: November 21, 2017, 09:57:46 AM »

That sounds a good idea Klunk.  I know you are familiar with Black Park. 
Not sure of the diameter it says 6.5cm / 2.56 " o/diameter.  Anyway, ordered two lengths.
Not sure how I am going to anchor it, but worth a try.  Maybe washing line and weights.
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Klunk

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #356 on: November 21, 2017, 11:25:16 AM »

When we were down a couple of years ago we anchored it by tying off from the top of the bank up near the frequency control/ notice board. There are planks against the bank there. Its a long drop  though for that big boat
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build - Transporter
« Reply #357 on: November 26, 2017, 03:23:54 PM »

Less than a foot down to the water Klunk . . .

Transporter

Transporting a more than seven foot ship required a new approach that involved remaking the carrier on my Silver Cross pushchair.   Two 12mm plywood boards 900 x 430, covered with water resistant carpet tiles and supported with stainless tubes and sockets.  Some 14mm U channel plastic trim finishes off the edges. 
Seen here today with HMS Skirmisher on the lower deck.  HMS Agincourt will have one hull half secured on each deck.



It collapses down to not much more room in the boot as my original carrier, together with the folded down push chair frame on end. 
That leaves the whole folded down back seats for the two hull halves.



Now I’ve got the transporter done I can finally move about in my little workshop again, instead of climbing over Workmate; carpet tiles; push chair and large sheets of ply.  The model alone takes up two thirds of the length of the room.

Back to the detailing, which I love.
In the words of the Queen song . . .  “Don’t stop me now. . .  I’m having a good time !”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzGwKwLmgM
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #358 on: November 26, 2017, 07:46:47 PM »

Definitely thinking outside of the box  :-))
I think it’s amazing how much boat you can get in your car!


You maybe interested to know that Ron K is continuing a project he started almost 20 years ago, it’s been sitting at Dean’s Marine since I’ve been visiting. Who knows HMS Invincible, the G3 class battlecruiser might appear on the WPMBC stand at Warwick next year! :o
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #359 on: November 26, 2017, 08:02:58 PM »

Necessity being the mother of invention Nick.  Tee Hee !

Ron Dean did show me Ron K's HMS Invincible in the 'garage' last December.  At 2.7 metres she makes Agincourt look almost likkle.  I really would like to see that finished to his usual high standards.  No, it would never fit in my car, even in halves  %%
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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #360 on: November 26, 2017, 08:28:39 PM »

It doesn’t even fit in my Dad’s van!!! {-) :o
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #361 on: November 26, 2017, 09:06:23 PM »

At almost nine feet long, a 1:96th Hood probably won't fit in most people's vans either!

I am very pleased that a number of the different paths you are progressing up are coming together Bob.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #362 on: November 30, 2017, 11:26:54 AM »

174 porthole eyebrows, and three days, later . . .


Porthole Eyebrows

Before fitting the torpedo net booms and shelves I needed to fit 176 porthole eyebrows.  A long job.  The eyebrows divert water away from the top of porthole openings.  Brass etchings, each cut from the sheet and teased into a raised lip.

Torpedo nets

These were removed before being taken over by the Royal Navy, along with the over-turrets boat decks and tall topmasts.  However, IMO she looked so good with them I have decided to retain them all for this model.  ( Also = more detail ! )

Thin hardwood strips added for torpedo net shelves, but before I could do that I had to chisel off the centre fold-down casement doors with a flat Xacto bladed tool.  Silly me, when fitting these doors I had not allowed for the rolled netting just below.   :embarrassed:
The doors will be reaffixed folding down onto net and shelf.  Small angle brackets were added under the shelves as reinforcement.  ZIP Kicker proved invaluable where the shelf edge had to be formed to follow the hull curve.



There are sixteen and a half support booms each side, for which I will be using 3mm carbon fibre hollow tube.  Small brass eyelets with conical beads at the bottom, and wire eyes at the top.  The net will be left off until after painting, but I now have the mesh for it.  Very fine plastic coated fibreglass mesh for insect protection. Intension is to roll the netting over a thin Perspex rod.

More later . . .
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #363 on: November 30, 2017, 08:56:35 PM »

Having spent 3/4 hour looking for a topic on HMS Dreadnought that had an elegant way of making and fitting torpedo nets etc, and then my 'xxxxx' of a computer going (insert your fruitiest and most blue expletives here) teenage for another quarter of an hour, all I can say is that there is a topic on the build of a HMS Dreadnought model by Dreadnought72, Warspite or Irons01 that will be of great use to you assuming BotoPh**kit did not hijack their photos.  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Rant over. The method the chap used to fit his stowed nets was very elegant as he had suffered serious damage caused by a robust halt at the pond side  {:-{ and devised a better way.

Your rigols look lovely Bob  :-))

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littoralcombat

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #364 on: November 30, 2017, 09:38:30 PM »

Impressive build Bob, and a great bit of improvisation for your transport issue.
Spare a thought though for a Bloke in my Club who is building  a model of the USN aircraft Carrier USS Constellation in 1/72nd scale. At over 15 feet long, and a width of almost 4 feet at the widest part of the flightdeck, she is huge........and he has not even split her in two.
Custom built dolly for lakeside movement and launch, custom built trailer for road transport. We all think he is Bonkers, but full credit to him, she is progressing well. First Seatrial 10th December.
 %%
Nige
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #365 on: November 30, 2017, 09:55:26 PM »

Sorry Ian, but I did chuckle at your rant  {-) 
I will start searching for that article.  "Rigol"?  I didn't know there was a name for them.  Wki Dictionary says "A circle, Diadem".  Very apt.

Nige:  Now that definitely will NOT fit in my car !  I would love to see photos of the sea trials  :-))

I am currently trawling the net looking for better detail information on the fittings for the torpedo booms.  So far only numerous small blurry photos and not very detailed descriptions.  They do say torpedo nets could be deployed or taken in around 2-3 minutes.  Will try looking for other boom fittings from contemporary era.

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #366 on: November 30, 2017, 10:05:33 PM »

...the build of a HMS Dreadnought model by Dreadnought72, Warspite or Irons01...


Not me, unfortunately. My hull's in the attic (awaiting a new building space, and some time from the endless slog of work.) BUT I've been playing with plasticard, recently, and I can confirm "things are happening" above decks.  :-)  For my torpedo nets, I've saved a pile of metal rods that'll be my net booms. Netting? Not sure yet, I've got my options open.


Andy
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littoralcombat

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #367 on: December 01, 2017, 09:55:14 AM »

Bob, I will get permission from my Bonkers Mate and post some pics.
Nige
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #368 on: December 01, 2017, 12:55:26 PM »

Thank you Nige. I am looking forward to seeing those photos.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So far this is the best image I can get of torpedo net boom fittings, from HMS Bellepheron in “British Battleships of World War One”.



Still not all that clear how this swivel joint is constructed.  I am assuming that the top fitting is just an eye ring for the net support cable, plus there will be attachments for all the other deployment cables.


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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #369 on: December 01, 2017, 01:35:21 PM »

Bob,


The Anatomy of the Ship series - Dreadnought provides detailed plans of the net booms and how they work and are rigged. I believe they were pretty standard on all ships that used them so that may give you a very good guide. Agincourt is a unique ship and may be different but most ships have the net shelf at deck level with half the shelf outboard and half inboard.


As always very interesting to watch your progress!


Cheers


Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #370 on: December 01, 2017, 01:37:17 PM »

There are some useful photos online if you Google anti torpedo net

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=anti+torpedo+nets&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SfcLD167ulynHM%253A%252CiKbe37zVjNhndM%252C_&usg=__4G5wO1x81SK4nwvstWzKfdMqoZU%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeh8-M9ejXAhUmCsAKHVClAoMQ9QEINTAB#imgrc=Kskf49lUiZhk5M:

Apparently John Roberts in his Anatomy of the Ship HMS Dreadnought devoted space to describing the anti torpedo nets:

In his book "Anatomy of the Ship, The Battleship Dreadnought" (ISBN:085177895X) John Roberts presents the torpedo net defence in two pages of line drawings and how they were stored and deployed on pages 214 and 215. The net is a series of 2.5" interlocking steel rings and is controlled by two sets of wires. One to deploy and recover the net and the other to deploy and recover the booms that held the net.

Might be worth getting that if you don't have it. You can buy it for around £10 - £12.

Colin

PS 'Snap' Geoff!
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #371 on: December 01, 2017, 02:27:27 PM »

Thank you chaps.  Book now on order from Amazon.

I would have expected much more info online on how these assemble and operate.  I hate having to guess such information, and try to fudge something up that looks roughly right.
Agincourt had them removed shortly before being taken over by the Royal Navy in 1914, but if I am fitting them they might as well look the job.
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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #372 on: December 01, 2017, 08:34:49 PM »

Bob, you WILL love the book. Bearing in mind the RN at the time used 'the collection of parts' in various arrangements on its capital ships, there is MUCH in the book you'll find useful.


...I'd (erroneously!) thought you had it already.


Andy
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #373 on: December 01, 2017, 09:12:47 PM »

I am looking forward to receiving it Andy.   I always think my reference library is extensive, until another "must have" gem is pointed out to me.  I guess because I had not contemplated building HMS Dreadnaught it had not hit my priority list.
As you say there was so much commonality of parts and equipment in that era, of necessity for repair and replacement around the world, that much of the detail fittings would be the same.

The bottom fitting on the boom looks like a flanged-base ball joint in the photo.  I am sure it is something much simpler.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build - Torpedo nets
« Reply #374 on: December 04, 2017, 06:23:48 PM »

Torpedo Nets Detail

Book “Anatomy of a Ship. HMS Dreadnaught” just arrived.  What a fantastic mine of information.  What I really needed was better detail on how the ends of the torpedo net booms were constructed.  Wow.  Every detail you could ever need.

     

And as a bonus, detail on the brailling davits used to deploy the nets.  I can ‘t remember ever having seen these on a model of that era before.



More than enough info to construct the net booms.  I may even produce 64 davits as well, but not sure if I will go as far as the vast amount of cabling and pulleys for deploying the nets that are also described in great detail.

6 Inch Mountings

Whilst waiting for the book to come I have been working on the secondary armament mountings, which are also vulnerable to being broken off lakeside.  From the plans the cylindrical section gun facings scale to 15mm diameter.  So, I have some 15mm diameter Neoprene sponge cord to simulate the facings and help absorb minor knocks.

More on that next time . . .

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