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Author Topic: HMS Agincourt build project  (Read 81627 times)

Capt Podge

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #125 on: July 02, 2017, 09:32:13 PM »

Nice one Bob, Glad you found a solution.  :-))

Me too - and a lovely clear shot it is too, nice one. :-)

Regards,

Ray.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build - Forward bulkheads
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2017, 05:20:03 PM »

Forward Bulkheads

Now I’ve got the photo hosting problem sorted I can get back to the model making. 
Whoa !   Creating eight chunky bulkheads not far off a foot square feels more like cabinet making than model making.

Forward half bulkheads are all in 9 mm ply, with the interfacing section doubled up to 18 mm.  The one nearest the bow was trickiest as it involved concave curves.  This is the one I made a template for in strips of 10 mm balsa.  The profile transferred reasonably well, but took quite a bit of filing to get the fit right.



No holes yet.  I first have to finish the rear set, carefully clamp and dowel them altogether before I chance that operation as getting everything to align properly is super critical.  I could end up with a lot of egg on my face, this build is a pretty stupid idea anyway. 
The only stage I will know if I have the visionary objective understood is if it first rains for forty days and forty nights. 
I might need to add some scale animals . . .

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2017, 08:14:08 PM »

Someone at Wikcy said it would  make a good child's canoe, but possibly it would do as a small animal's ark, you know, pop a couple of Hedgehogs, some fluffy rodent types and some reptiles in, plenty of space  %)

Seriously though, I am so pleased that you have got vision back. I was worried I had bought too many hobnobs, as it takes less time to read the captions than digest the pictures, and the barrel only take so many biccies  {:-{

If the tops of your bulkheads are all prefectly level, then that should give you the baseline needed to mark out the positions to drill your holes.

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2017, 08:17:22 PM »

Hi Bob


Thats some very nice wood work to create your bulkheads, thats my next job on my Invincible to create the water-tightness required in model boat hulls. Can't wait for the next instalment. :-))
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2017, 08:33:29 PM »


If the tops of your bulkheads are all prefectly level, then that should give you the baseline needed to mark out the positions to drill your holes.


Unfortunately Ian the after part of the main deck is an inch lower then the forepart, so I have to use the "keel" surface as datum for the holes.  Also, it's not perfectly flat inside.  Being quite close to flat across such a large surface is a tribute to Ron Dean's moulding skills.  Nothing wrong with a good stock of Hobnobs - I love 'em.

Nick:  Your hull adaptation looks much more complicated and challenging than mine.  I am sure your bulkheads will be spot on.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #130 on: July 05, 2017, 05:27:05 PM »

Several posts back I was asking about what happened to the stowage of ships boats after removing the flying bridges.
You were right Geoff, as picture below, they must have unloaded them all before going to sea.

In this photo showing the converted HMS Agincourt at sea there are clearly no ships boats visible anywhere.

Do I make and fit them?  With the flying bridges on I can.  Otherwise most turrets will have extremely restricted fields of fire.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bulkheads

I now have all eight main bulkheads cut out and dry-fitted.  Phew !   Hot work this weather sawing and gradually filing them to match the various inner hull profiles.   Next job will be temporarily doweling or screwing them all together preparatory to drilling one inch holes for the stainless tubes - right through the whole stack of eight.

Trepidation time   {:-{
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dodes

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #131 on: July 05, 2017, 07:24:31 PM »

Hi mate found this picture, thought it might help you with were the boats went
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #132 on: July 05, 2017, 08:46:12 PM »

Thank you for the detailed illustration Dodes.   Some of my previous photos (deleted by Photobucket) showed the boats arrangements in both 'as built' and later configurations.  I had earlier decided to include the flying bridges, tall top masts and torpedo net booms, which incidentally gives much better bearing angles for the gun fire system I aim to incorporate.   Your picture shows well how restricting bearings were with so many boats stowed around the guns.

Geoff had found out that in practice the boats were left moored at port, which is where they were all in regular use for ferrying stores and personnel.

On the bulkheads I have just found out that you can get a 26 mm x 100 mm long wood auger, and have ordered one.  This is for the one inch stainless tubes.  A nominal 0.6mm clearance rather than the tight fit of a one inch or 25mm auger.  However, I do expect quite a bit of fettling in assembling this lot.  Only 24 holes to line up along 1 metre length   :embarrassed:
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dodes

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2017, 09:00:42 PM »

Happy building Ken, site I found the pic on had several capital ships on it.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #134 on: July 05, 2017, 09:52:58 PM »

That is definitly a good idea. Having that clearance will pay dividends as you have space for glue as well as wiggle.

Your choice of having flying bridges is probably the wiser for your plan to have rotating turrets Bob, because then you have a greater angle of traverse on the middle turrets, and do not have to worry about boats, turrets or both being damaged if the latter traverse too far by mistake.

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dodes

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #135 on: July 06, 2017, 11:09:46 AM »


Hi Ken, talking of wood augers, I was in my local B&Q when I saw some 4 x twist augers about that size being sold off at a discount, think I may go back and get myself a set.
David.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build - Bulkheads stack
« Reply #136 on: July 10, 2017, 10:49:54 AM »

Aligning Bulkhead for Tube Holes

All eight 9mm bulkheads are now a reasonably close fit to the inner hull profile, with the interfacing pairs glued together as single 18mm units.  Next comes aligning the 72mm thick stack of plywood in preparation for drilling three 27mm holes for the reinforcing tubes, right through the stack.

I decided to use 6mm x 30 dowels to maintain the alignment.  First clamping the two double thickness ply partitions across the horizontal and vertical planes, then drilling and fitting two positioning dowels. 



Then, in succession, carefully aligning the next bulkhead and dowelling that, turning over and doing the same for the opposite end.  Finally the fore and aft bulkheads to complete the secured stack.  The stack can now be clamped to the workbench for the auger drilling.   The dowels can later be removed, and holes filled.

Three days waiting for Parcelforce Express 24 whilst tracking info remained stuck on “out for delivery”. 
The 27mm auger finally arrived, looking like a wood burrowing Thunderbirds Mole.



Hopefully the alignment will be as accurate as I can make it for dry fitting the stainless steel tubes.  I do however expect to do some fettling of the tube holes, which may take some time.  Only when everything fits will I secure the bulkheads into the hull.

I hope this new tool will augur well for the fitting operation.    {-)

Bob K
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #137 on: July 10, 2017, 08:40:36 PM »

A five star groan Bob  :}

I apologise for telling you how to do carpentary given that you have probably been whittling dead tree for decades, can you turn the block over so you can drill in from both sides to keep the faces free of splinters and unsightly tears?

Just a thought to save you extra work to do in filling and tidying up, though obviously if this ability could cause innacuracy to occur then a bit of tidying is a small price to pay in the long term.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #138 on: July 10, 2017, 10:34:47 PM »

Not at all Ian.  I am the first to admit that woodwork is not my best point of sailing.

My aim is to put a scrap piece of ply underneath the stack before clamping it down so the auger does not suddenly burst into free air, ripping up the grain.  The plan is to do it from one side only otherwise I might not get the measurements to line up and end up with a staggered hole.  I also need to keep checking the drill remains vertical, not having a pillar drill. 

I have visions of my Workmate spinning on the end of the drill.   %%
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #139 on: July 10, 2017, 11:06:46 PM »

That is the best idea of all Bob. Fingers crossed for the next couple of days.

Go careful and clamp that Workmate down well  :-))
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #140 on: July 10, 2017, 11:13:36 PM »

Morning Bob.......we see the 27mm diameter auger bit has a ~~10mm shank hex drive......this is a new design that has appeared over the past 15 years or so

The original parallel round shank was perfect for our great grand fathers with their hand powered ratchet brace drill....

So the new hex drive will transmit all of the power your hand drill can muster....prior to seizing <*< & grabbing >>:-( on breakthrough ....[I wouldn't be concerned with splinters....if the work is secure it could self propel you] :embarrassed:

Can you not beg a neighbour with a pillar drill to use it :-))...

Derek

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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #141 on: July 10, 2017, 11:50:03 PM »

...A second thumbs-up to using pillar drill, from me.


Given the sliding fit required for your s/s tubes, these holes have to be parallel. You don't want a wonky hull or immovable  tubes if they're at all squint. It would be hard enough for a narrower bit doing it hand-held, but this diameter of bit won't take hostages when it's running.


Andy
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #142 on: July 11, 2017, 01:56:33 PM »

Looking at the auger I would counsel you to use a brace and bit rather than a drill as I think once it bites it could break your wrist with the torque kick. The benefit with a brace and bit is that you can cut quite slowly so you can control it better. If you drill a very small guide hole then the screw part should follow it all true.


I would think that a reasonable clearance in all the holes would be the way to go so you can assemble everything loosely and in line before you fix with araldite or resin. You can also hold everything true with a couple of G clamps and once dry it should all just slide apart.


Watching with interest.


Cheers


Geoff
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #143 on: July 11, 2017, 02:36:29 PM »

I think you are right Geoff.  A pillar drill large enough for this job would be mega expensive.
So, I have spent today calling over a dozen professional carpentry firms in the area, usually leaving messages, (without reply).  Three that did respond said they don't have a pillar drill in their workshop either.
HSS Tool Hire - no luck there.

The problem with a carpenters brace is that square-ness reverts to being by eye.
The problem with a power drill is not just square-ness but lack of low speed control.
A very large pillar drill would stay square, but very expensive with enough size and speed control.
I would be unlikely to use it again and have nowhere to keep it.  Use once & E-Bay?
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #144 on: July 11, 2017, 03:09:45 PM »

Fingers crossed.  I may have a lifeline thrown.  More on Thursday . . .
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #145 on: July 11, 2017, 03:13:01 PM »

As an off the wall idea, in the old days technical colleges used to open their doors after hours to hobbyists so you had access to large equipment. I don't know if this is still the case but may be worth checking.

Cheers

Geoff
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tonyH

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #146 on: July 11, 2017, 03:41:08 PM »

Hi Bob,

Would it not be feasible to use a 27mm hole cutter from, for example, Sandvik?
You wouldn't have to cut the whole 72mm because you would lift out 1 or 2 thicknesses at a time leaving the 6mm pilot hole in place.
Just an idea.

Tony
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dodes

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #147 on: July 11, 2017, 03:59:50 PM »

Hi Bob, just a of the wall thought, I was wondering if a multi flute drill may have a cutter for each flute, if so it may cut truer than a single flute.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #148 on: July 11, 2017, 04:51:10 PM »

Actually the auger has two opposed-side cutting flutes.  The slightly leading one cuts the periphery, whilst the opposite side cuts the interior.  The central "V" has a spiral thread cutter to keep the cut true.
Quite natty really seeing as a regular HSS drill has two identical cutting faces that meet in the centre.
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joppyuk1

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Re: HMS Agincourt build project
« Reply #149 on: July 11, 2017, 05:59:58 PM »

As an off the wall idea, in the old days technical colleges used to open their doors after hours to hobbyists so you had access to large equipment. I don't know if this is still the case but may be worth checking.

Cheers

Geoff
Only problems here are -
a) can you find a technical college these days? our local one (medium sized city, did a lot of day release apprentice courses and night classes) closed its construction shops (joinery, carpentry, brickwork, motor engineering) some years ago. The space is now a football field.
b) I did a three year part-time course there in the early 2000's, learning how to use all the lovely big machines etc. got my certificates to prove I could do it. When I wanted to carry on at an evening class in order to take advantage of the machinery I was told "you can use the hand-tools but the workshop assistant must do the heavy machinery jobs, it's health and safety and insurance based", so I didn't bother.
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