Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11   Go Down

Author Topic: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser  (Read 28434 times)

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,932
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #100 on: November 06, 2017, 10:05:24 AM »

Geoff is right, it is certainly an Indefatigable class. Looks like a plate was removed for some reason but if it was New Zealand she was not hit at Jutland and Australia was not present at the battle so must have been some other time.

Another minor mystery!

Colin
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #101 on: November 06, 2017, 11:11:38 PM »

Ooh, I like a mystery  :-)
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #102 on: November 17, 2017, 06:59:02 PM »

Yep itís definitely Indie not Invincible- a badly labelled picture on the net. Curiously in the book Clydebank Battlecruisers it clearly shows Indieís rounded P & Q turret barbette but without the Ďboltsí.


Well I had a good weekend at IMBS 2017 where I saw Geoffís Invincible hull build - fantastic it looks too!
It was interesting to compare the hulls, my hull is 1/2 inch wider than it should be but couldnít do much about it due to limitations in the GRP hull design.


Iíve found some good pictures of Invincible recently that I know is Invincible and one is quite upsetting as it shows her final seconds. Considering how many visitors I had to explain what Invincible was, I could understand youngsters but not some of the elders, and when I showed them this picture they were truly humbled.
Anyway some progress with the rudders and getting the drive systems working together which allowed me to permanently attach the quarterdeck.


3_B0_A53_C0_7_EDE_4089_B5_CE_CD3_E2_CE93_CA8" border="0 BCCCDB00_3_B54_466_B_A5_C8_2_C7_DB60_FC09_E" border="0 52_ED0_AB0_350_F_4_D3_A_9_DA8_24_CD85651_A85" border="0 EA8_A23_A0_3625_466_A_9516_B9_DEBC0_D451_B" border="0 A87_CDCF1_B36_B_4804_B303_280822_DD432_F" border="0



Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Bob K

  • Bob K
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Location: Windsor
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #103 on: November 17, 2017, 08:05:06 PM »

Twin rudders, and slightly angled.  That looks really neat Nick.  Did the angles makes the linkages more difficult?
Coming along superbly.   :-))
Logged
HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #104 on: November 17, 2017, 08:08:31 PM »

Hi Bob


Yes they did cause a bit of nuisance with some soldering on the rudder tiller arms. About three failed attempts at getting the correct angle.


The different range of movement and angles give some weird optical illusions!
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #105 on: November 17, 2017, 08:27:05 PM »

Some more pictures of another Invincible I saw at IMBS 2017 on the Coventry MBC stand. I think itís approximately 1/192 or 1/200 scale but itís a fantastic model .


8_A05_B07_B_9358_46_A1_832_D_61_A53095_DCB6" border="0 AB905_FE7_5_A7_F_4_D27_93_FA_9_ED71_CC981_EE" border="0 B9_B42203_E1_B2_4_E03_BB63_CC0_F12_A25_BD2" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #106 on: November 19, 2017, 07:20:52 PM »

Hi everyone


A bit more progress this weekend. The quarter deck is permanently attached and an access hatch has been made, originally I didnít want to create this feature to keep the water tightness of the hull but my worrying about tiller access made me change my mind.
The rudders have been painted with primer red and lacquered to seal them all up. Hull plating has been started on the port side and the deck edge has been sealed with an initial layer of 0.25mm plasticard before the torpedo net shelf is built on top. And finally for those who didnít see her at Warwick I have made a start on superstructure items and bridges.


4434_D682_BBFA_4_E2_F_B7_C2_42_B23_A073_EFA" border="0 B228_C931_E8_B3_4_A40_87_E3_E6_DD5_BB7_F2_D6" border="0 73_DD1_E6_B_E0_D3_45_AE_90_E5_937_A2_D9285_D5" border="0 45_BA0_E1_D_5_B97_4_CC7_B485_000335480340" border="0 422_B91_DF_16_E0_4_F58_A1_F4_B5841986180_D" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2018, 12:29:18 PM »

Hi everyone


Got back for a break from Cyprus and completed the motor mounts.


BE7_BEAC1_D3_A0_4_BCA_9346_6_B2_DAAAE57_FC" border="0 F559_E041_2322_43_C0_82_A5_9_D17_D42_F3_D79" border="0 FAE4_CECA_9_A42_4020_9_D04_D9_E239781936" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2018, 09:14:54 PM »

And who makes the motors? They look quite a classic style.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #109 on: January 28, 2018, 03:20:36 PM »

Hi Ian


Not sure who made them, just a standard car heater motor probably from a VW or a Vauxhall.


Iíve been getting my Ďelectrickeryí fitted today for the foggy units. I think the right amount of smoke/steam effect has been achieved!


18883372_47_C4_4953_94_AC_33299_C7310_B4" border="0 7_BD79_BFB_2987_4190_9_B42_9_E5062_D96_FA5" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #110 on: January 28, 2018, 04:25:42 PM »

That looks good to me Nick.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2018, 01:39:49 PM »

Hi everyone


Another update from the Brown shipyard near Kettering.
Iíve been tinkering with the foggy units to get more volume so it creates that huge smoke/steam clouds you traditionally see on Dreadnought era warships. Instead of messing around with the electrics I decided to try a bit of aerodynamics and shortened the inner funnels so it just pokes out from the superstructure decks. Those who remember their jet engine theory  %)  and their aerodynamics theory will know about the Venturi effect. So effectively I have created a large chamber for the smoke/steam to expand in which slows down its pace, just like a wing or a jet engine exhaust. Anyway if you compare the pictures from my last post and this one youíll see the difference.


DEED74_D7_9_CB9_4917_8427_4778_E4_FFCCC9" border="0 4_A9_C7_E3_B_4_BE3_4939_A4_D3_ED6_DAD2428_A2" border="0 0_E6_B5589_F304_425_A_AA8_D_C0_F808_B33156" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,932
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2018, 02:25:22 PM »

That's quite impressive Nick, looks a lot like full size. I suppose on the lake the wind strength will have an effect. Will it disperse the vapour or simply blow it down wind I wonder.

Colin
Logged

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2018, 02:41:28 PM »

Hi Colin


I hope to test that theory next weekend when the two speed controllers arrive. Iíll take some photos of the trial.
At an indoor show, however, like Warwick it should be more than enough to produce an impressive cloud!
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2018, 03:43:58 PM »

In the first image (left hand) the smoke generated looks especially good. Taking Colin's comment into account regarding the wind, if it is calmish and cold you should get a really good rich steam going.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2018, 05:52:53 PM »

Fingers crossed for next weekend!


The next few pictures show the foggy unit layout and Iíve gone for an absolute tidiness approach just incase I need extra space for any future upgrades- almost like the modern Type 45s!


8_AD8_D980_1_AA0_46_EC_A507_6_A24188_AE1_C5" border="0 A58579_F0_B6_B9_40_CF_859_A_46_A95_E687_A7_A" border="0 5_F218_A8_F_A340_4_C84_AB34_B8_C4_CB328_E51" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,890
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2018, 10:05:42 PM »

Yes very tidy Nick

.....& I know there must be a logical answer, but why is the 3rd smoker [closest to the motors] not athwart ship like the fwd 2 units?

Did the stern single submerged 18" torpedo tube have doors, or will it blanked off internally in the model?

Again, your imgbb + facility on the viewer is amazing!...as are the inboard turning props %)

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,833
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #117 on: February 04, 2018, 10:37:17 PM »

Love the smoke - but being Invincible you can never have too much!  ok2





Boilers by Volkswagen, I guess.


Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #118 on: February 04, 2018, 11:05:25 PM »

Hi Derek


Many thanks for the kind comments, so you like my Dad have spotted the Ďone of these foggy units isnít like the othersí difference. Dad asked me why I did this layout and itís actually quite simple... itís to create space for the ESCs directly in front of the motors- boring isnít it! ;)


Hi Andy


Itís a stunning picture isnít it! Thatís always the image I think of when I think Battleship! :-)
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,890
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #119 on: February 05, 2018, 12:40:14 AM »

Yarrow 3 Drum type, coal fired boilers .........all 31 of them?............ according to text on the vessel, she could spray fuel oil onto the boiler coal...[for increased thermal capacity O0],  however further reading does suggest she could also 'lay on smoke %)'....assumed as to block her image from view & from the foe

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,890
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #120 on: February 05, 2018, 01:02:09 AM »

Nick...

There must be a story which I have missed as in my mind I remembered an outboard running propeller, however when I look closer  :o I find a mixture??

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Geoff

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 655
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #121 on: February 05, 2018, 08:53:56 AM »

Nick,

What's the current consumption of the individual smoke units? Also assume they are running on 24 volts.

Cheers

Geoff
Logged

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #122 on: February 05, 2018, 08:08:32 PM »

Hi Derek


I might have fitted an opposite turning prop on the wrong shaft to see if the props worked together via the belt drive- they should all be inward turning- so I have x2 LH and x2 RH props fitted now.


The spraying on of oil on to the coal was a common tactic used by most navies in the Great War period. Apart from increasing the speed of the ship it also laid down a smoke screen, destroyers primarily were used for this task but larger warships could carry this procedure out too.


Hi Geoff


The foggy units are 24v but have an invertor fitted to allow use of single 12v batteries. I have been told by the manufacturer that will last 30-45 minutes per filling, but I haven't tried this yet so hopefully this weekend we will find out.
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Geoff

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 655
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #123 on: February 06, 2018, 09:18:34 AM »

Because oil has a higher calorific value than coal, weight for weight, it also increased the range of the ships. There was much experimentation at this time to improve both speed and endurance with both the size and number and design of the oil sprayers.

Good Welsh steam coal really was the very best in the world as its calorific value was higher than other coals and it burned more cleanly (believe it or not) and left less ash and clinker. This is actually quite important as getting rid of ash and clinker was an arduous task.

By contrast the coal accessible to the German fleet was of poorer quality so in general their ships could not steam so fast for the same period of time which had important strategic considerations.

Two other factors:

1) Coal was an integral part of the protective systems for all warships as it stopped shells and also reduced flooding by virtue of its volume.

2) The UK did not have any domestic access to an oil supply so in time of war this could prove significant. This delayed its widespread usage until supplies were reasonably secure.

Also whilst we often see pictures of ships belching out clouds of smoke this usually occurred when they were stoking the fires and therefore improper combustion took place until it all settled down. There are many pictures of ships under way without the huge plumes of smoke!

A design consideration for ships was the number and size of boilers. As boilers were hand fed with coal and cleaned/raked out they could not exceed a certain size so therefore there were many more of them. With the advent of oil only the actual size of the boilers could be increased with attendant increases in efficiency and the number reduced significantly.

This also explains why the Battlecruisers tended to have more funnels than their battleship cousins. This in turn impacted on deck space and design considerations.

Its all really rather complex!

Cheers

Geoff




Logged

Bob K

  • Bob K
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Location: Windsor
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #124 on: February 06, 2018, 12:33:30 PM »

Interesting Geoff.  I had often wondered why capital ships of this era were sometimes photographed belching volcanic quantities of smoke whilst other photos show very little, even at speed.

PS:  Any chance of a picture of the part built HMS Invincible I saw at your place just over a week ago?  Plank on frame.  It really did look beautifully made.
Logged
HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11   Go Up