Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   Go Down

Author Topic: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser  (Read 28406 times)

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2017, 09:19:19 PM »

Two of the turrets were built by Vickers, and the other two by Armstrongs. Both sets were later converted to hydralic at much cost once the admiralty had gotten fed up with blue flashes and bangs!!!

If building her in her earliest configuration Nick, you may want to install those randomly flashing LEDs (Model railway builders use to recreate arc welding) to recreate this effect in the turrets  :D :D :D
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2017, 08:08:11 PM »

Hi everyone


To get over the events of this week Dad and I bought a large sheet of 4mm thick plywood for the deck of the Invincible. Using a jigsaw to get the basic shape right we then used a rotary sander to then correct size and as a result I now have the best fitting deck we've ever made!


IMG_2049" border="0 IMG_2050" border="0 IMG_2051" border="0 IMG_2052" border="0 IMG_2053" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Bob K

  • Bob K
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Location: Windsor
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2017, 08:19:01 AM »

Looking really neat Nick.  I am wondering how you have arranged the step between deck heights, and how you are going to arrange internal access in those ply panels.

I am at a similar stage on my HMS Agincourt, just marking out the 5 mm ply panels.  I too have a step between deck heights fore and aft, and am trying to figure out how to achieve reasonable access to all the gubbins that will be installed inside without making access hatches too visible.  I will need a lot more access than can be achieved by just removing the superstructure.
Logged
HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Akira

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 239
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Hope, Maine USA
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2017, 12:43:23 PM »

One suggestion to improve access is to make your turrets and barbetts removable and gain internal access thru those openings.
Logged

dreadnought72

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,833
  • Wood butcher with ten thumbs
  • Location: Airdrie, Scotland
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2017, 05:48:38 PM »

Bit tight at 1/96th scale. There's only about 3.5" per barbette.


Andy
Logged
Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2017, 10:16:26 PM »

Right now to explain my access into the hull, I hope!


On Invincible there is a curved break water directly forward of the forward turret. My access starts at this point and finishes inside the break splitting the upper deck and the quarter deck. The 'wall' which flares in the two decks will remain attached permanently to the hull and quarter deck. The upper deck will be cut again approximately 0.25inch inboard from both sides and this will become the hull side and torpedo net shelf which allows the planking to start at a sharp clean join.
The deck will be tight fitting with a supporting beams underneath with magnets countersunk into them to hold the deck in place. This will allow all three funnels, two tripod masts, and three of the four gun barbettes to be fully removable with the deck preventing an unnecessary de rigging of the masts or other areas. Using this method it will also mean that the many, many stanchions will remain permanently attached to the hull sides to prevent the problematic joining of hand rails.
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Bob K

  • Bob K
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Location: Windsor
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2017, 12:35:15 PM »

Nick:  If I am following your description right, after accurately fitting the two levels of deck, on the forward part you will be cutting almost all of this away behind the curved breakwater, leaving just 1/4 inch each side for stanchions etc.
That is almost the whole deck, with just a fragile strip each side at the edges of the hell?  I guess then you will then cut another ply board almost as big to accurately fill the large space?   Have I missed something?

At some point, on the lower rear deck, you will ness access to the motors and steering gear.
Logged
HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2017, 01:25:17 PM »

You're spot on Bob, I will add three or four beams that go side to side for hull rigidity. The design of the prop shafts will be that they will be long enough to enter the main access point. The only hatch that will be in the quarter deck will be for access to the rudder tillers.
The access is so big to allow access to the motors (x2), pulleys and belts for the other two shafts, three foggy units, four SLA batteries, two Electronize ESCs, Rx, switches, and finally an Ardiuno unit.
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Geoff

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 655
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2017, 01:26:44 PM »

I have also given quite a lot of thought as to how to access the insides of an Invincible class Battlecrusier and would generally concur with the approach taken.


The forward breakwater forms a natural cut line which is easily disguised. I would however make the removable sections completley parallel rather than following the deck edge as if parallel then the joint lines can be disguised as plank lines. The difficult area is P & Q and I think the main question is do these come off as well or can you do a semi-circular cut around each to leave them on the model and continue the straight line cut to include the rear superstructure. I think this would be my counsel as its hard to hide a curved cut line just inside the railings.


I watch with considerable interest.


Cheers


Geoff
Logged

Bob K

  • Bob K
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Location: Windsor
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2017, 01:46:45 PM »

Thank you Nick, and Geoff.  I have never built such a large hulled vessel before so all such advice is gratefully received.  I have my two decks marked out and trying to figure the access dilemma.  I think I may need a long square hatch encompassing the three rear turrets, batteries, and the steering gear.  From advice here I shall make that square to line up with planking.  The long foredeck may be trickier in my case, although I also have a curved breakwater.

I shall continue to watch this build with great interest, especially as skills being used will help me with mine.
Logged
HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,932
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 02:35:32 PM »

Having a rectangular opening is far better than a curved one which follows the line of the hull. I think you just have to accept that whatever you do there will be a 'shut line', you just have to make it as unobtrusive as possible. As far as line of planking is concerned if you cut the hatch first then you can lay the planking with it in place and contrive to bridge the line with a plank which is not actually glued to the adjacent one. This would offer the possibility of an almost invisible joint but you would need to be careful not to damage the thin edge when removing the hatch.

Otherwise ensure that the hatch edge corresponds with a black caulking line.

Colin
Logged

Geoff

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 655
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2017, 01:57:29 PM »

Just as a thought if you want to try to get the guns firing (per Iron Duke) the outside barbette diameter of the plastic pipe I used is 75mm. Together with the turret this contains all the working parts so with clearance there should be room within the outer barbettes to fit if you want.


Cheers


Geoff
Logged

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2017, 08:05:54 PM »

A bit of today's work getting to get everything lined up and proportional.
Behind her is Dreadnought for comparison.



IMG_2058" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2017, 08:30:45 PM »

An aerial view of the first Dreadnought and Battlecruiser!


IMG_2059" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2017, 08:42:24 PM »

And you have done a bit of sneaky superctructure building! She is most impressive Nick. Give us five years and the lake will be all covered in WW1 vessels with no water showing at Wicksteed!!
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2017, 08:56:48 PM »

We can only try! O0


Yes, I built the basis of the two superstructures so I can see the turret range of movements clearer so I can program an ardiuno to move the turrets as per C-3PO's set up. I also needed to drill holes into the deck at the same time as the superstructures to ensure a vertical mast location and for the funnels for each of the foggy units being correctly positioned to prevent filing larger holes like I did on Dreadnought.
Secondly I had to position the superstructures so I could work out the lift off points for access as the aft structure overlaps my rearmost part of the access panel.


My final set up will be a turret firing system as per Geoff's Iron Duke, but one step at a time!
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2017, 09:03:39 PM »

Ooh, a line of Battleships firing broadsides! That will be fab.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- a question
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2017, 09:59:40 PM »

Hi again!


I have an inquiry about some fittings that some of the dockyard Mayhemers may know the answer to.
In the attached picture below there are four fire fighting hoses and several lights on the superstructure.
Would they have stayed on the ship after fitting out and when would the lights be used?


IMG_0029" border="0
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!

Bob K

  • Bob K
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Location: Windsor
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2017, 10:23:06 PM »


My final set up will be a turret firing system as per Geoff's Iron Duke, but one step at a time!


Wicksteed Park next year could well see a battle fleet of gun fire and Arduino turret controls  O0
Logged
HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,890
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2017, 01:04:53 AM »

Nick....

One would not normally expect 'loose' items as fixtures facing toward any FWD quarter on or near deck level

So if those fire fighting pieces of apparatus were facing toward an AFT quarter, I would have expected as being permanent fixtures...........

Even though Invincible was of substantial tonnage, her freeboard was not great compared to modern warships say 1/5 of her tonnage

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2017, 11:19:59 PM »

For what it's worth, I would have thought these would have had their own lockers set next to the superstructure. Think 'Random boxes next to superstructures' on plastic kits.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,890
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2017, 01:20:54 AM »

Ever tried to unwind 100' of 4" lay flat hose from inside a steel box? >>:-(....I certainly haven't ...although I have seen the same unwound from a 3 pointed spiral bracket mounted to a vertical deck bulkhead similar to that shown in the earlier image

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,516
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2017, 09:26:08 PM »

I cannot imagine it being fun, though I have seen fire hoses in glass fonted cupboards in tower blocks.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

Geoff

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 655
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2017, 09:20:01 AM »

As an aside to this I understand ships would frequently lay out their hoses when going into action as the flood of water would help put our any fires. I've also read accounts where they had to go out and turn the blasted things off as the spray occluded the sights!

I too have wondered about this - where are the hoses?

On another note the lights on the side of the superstructure may well have been used to light the ship when coaling at night. The pictures of Inflexible certainly show them but I have not seen much evidence on other capital ships but on board pictures are really quite rare and invariably there is a member of the crew standing right in front of what you want to see!
Logged

raflaunches

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,508
  • The Penguins are coming!!!
  • Location: Back in the UK, Kettering, Northants
Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2017, 08:21:11 PM »

A bit more work on the superstructures, forward funnel has been roughly sorted out and the starting of a conning tower is on its way.


IMG_2065" border="0


I've been looking through the Seacraft series of books and found my copy of British Grand Fleet Battlecruisers which has a builders model of HMS Indomitable superbly photographed which also show the hose pipe holders and the little lights too.
In addition to other working items I'm going to have the coaling lights workable for some evening/night sails. So some micro LEDs have been ordered from Component Shop.
Logged
Nick B

Help! The penguins have stolen my sanity, and my hot water bottle!

Illegitimi non carborundum!
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   Go Up