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Author Topic: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser  (Read 44637 times)

derekwarner

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #300 on: May 26, 2020, 12:03:28 AM »

Nick.....this image below is from the Wiki page on the vessel and is noted as 'Invincible underway'

However I have somewhere read the text associated with this same image and it advised she was "Making Smoke" which was explained as 'oil injection into the boilers exhausts'

No increase in speed, just a disguise in capability  %)

Derek
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Derek Warner

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #301 on: May 26, 2020, 07:29:26 AM »

Derek


There is one thing I donít trust to be accurate and itís Wikipedia! :D
Considering the distance needed to be covered in the initial part of the battle to catch up Iím more inclined to say that they are shovelling coal like there is no tomorrow! I would have thought if they were making smoke it wouldnít be the best time for the photographer to take a picture as there wouldnít be much of a ship to see!
Throughout this particular action I believe that the Royal Navy held the upper hand and engaged the German cruisers at their leisure but they did allow themselves to get too close and Invincible was hit on the starboard side destroying a 4 inch gun barrel!
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Nick B

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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #302 on: May 26, 2020, 08:52:32 AM »

Nick is correct, the photo was taken while the battlecruisers were chasing the Germans. In fact, when they got into action the smoke from Invincible caused problems for the gunnery of Inflexible which was following her.

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Geoff

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #303 on: May 26, 2020, 09:59:41 AM »

I think its just stoking the boilers. When coal powered ships need to increase steam pressure they need to burn more fuel and until the fuel is properly burning coal produces huge amounts of smoke. This is why sometimes you see lots of smoke and other times really not too much depending on what they are doing, working up to full speed makes more smoke than keeping there.


Nick, I think you will have to make the steam pinnaces as she will look empty without them, and people will ask!


In general my understanding would be that they would land most of the lighter boats when going into action as there is no way they can survive and you are just taking splinters and a fire hazard with you. Its a little unclear and I have yet to find definitive proof either way. If you look at the high lift cutters on the mainmast they are too exposed to gun blast and in the way of the aft conning tower so would bet they would be landed before action, or possible cast adrift before action. This was frequently done in the days of sail, they would use a sea anchor to hold them and find them afterwards. If you won you can find them, if you lost it didn't matter!


Keep up the good work


Cheers


Geoff
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #304 on: May 27, 2020, 03:24:24 PM »

Nick,


Now that my Invincible is finished its sitting in splendour on the dinning room table and I can see it against the light and can see right through chunks of the superstructure:


1) Beneath the forward searchlight platform
2) Beneath the forward boat deck
3) Beneath the aft boatdeck.


On pictures of the real ship this aspect rarely seems to show up which could just be the light or the camera angle but it almost suggests there are solid structures in those places that are not shown on the plans. What do you think?


Cheers


Geoff
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #305 on: May 27, 2020, 07:00:41 PM »

Hi Geoff


Interesting, Iíll have to have a look on mine as she hasnít left the workshop since Warwick last year. Hopefully itís a trick of the light as I canít imagine much extra on these areas could be added behind them but who knows since we have so few pictures of these areas from 1914.


Hopefully this week coming will mean some extra work will be done on Invincible  :-))
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #306 on: May 29, 2020, 01:11:23 PM »

Hooray!
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #307 on: May 31, 2020, 01:10:30 PM »

104 years ago today this afternoon HMS Invincible was lost with a majority of her crew and her Rear Admiral, Sir Horace Lambert Alexander Hood.
I also started this model 3 years today...
I have spent this morning building the ships boats derrick boom using John Haynes fittings and a brass tube. Really adds detail to such a mundane object.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #308 on: June 01, 2020, 11:04:39 PM »


I have ummed and ahh'd numerous times when looking through his web shop and wondered if they would do for the Armoured Cruiser.


They are eye candy, how much did a set cost Nick?


Looking fabulous by the way  :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #309 on: June 01, 2020, 11:12:11 PM »

Hi Ian


Many thanks, I was glad I got a set as I was wondering how to make one! I think it was about £5 but Iím not sure if John is still in business as I was told he ceased in March this year. I hope either he is continuing or has sold them on to someone else to continue as I would hate to see them disappear.
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Nick B

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #310 on: June 01, 2020, 11:17:25 PM »


Aye as his range is excellent. That and Deans are probably the larger percentage of access to such equipment in 1:96th.


Worried now  :((
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #311 on: June 02, 2020, 05:15:41 PM »

My understanding is that you can still purchase JRH fittings but only what he has in stock - in my experience he responds well to a quick e-mail. Very nice guy to deal with.


Cheers


geoff
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #312 on: June 12, 2020, 04:43:58 PM »

Nick,


I'm sure you may remember we were puzzled by the tube on the starboard side of Invincibles bridge. By chance I was looking through the British Battlecrusier book by John Roberts and there is a 3 D drawing of Queen Mary's bridge structure and on the starboard side there is a tube near the conning tower which shows it to be a protected ariel/antenna "container" don't know what to call it but its not shown in the Kagero 3D book on QM.


Also in Invincible port side aft superstructure there is a cage which serves the same purpose to insulate the crew from the high voltage antenna lead. Maybe Invincible had one fitted forwards as well but the photo is the only evidence I have ever seen of its existence and I have never seen a picture of any other ship with a similar tube structure.


Hmmm.......


Cheers


Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #313 on: June 12, 2020, 06:35:53 PM »

Maybe it is the case that these puzzling structures were temporary in nature and came and went as technology improved. So they were not well documented. Ships were undergoing modifications all the time during the war.

Colin
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #314 on: June 12, 2020, 08:11:12 PM »

Coming and going and leaving nothing but a few redundant holes.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #315 on: June 12, 2020, 11:40:21 PM »

Hi Geoff


Well thatís interesting to know. I knew about the mesh screen on the aft superstructure near the main mast but that is certainly worth looking into. Iím wondering if it was a temporary modification for the Falklands battle as the only picture of the strange post is taken at Gibraltar in 1915 just after the battle. The foretops were removed so it could be something to do with radio transmissions after all.
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #316 on: June 14, 2020, 01:02:44 PM »

Attempt number 2 at making the aft superstructure skid/boat deck. A lot of trial fitting as I go along and seeing where the support columns fit beneath. A Saturday and Sunday morning amount of work on this alone!
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #317 on: June 14, 2020, 09:31:43 PM »

Hi Geoff


Now that youíve mentioned that the strange post is possibly radio related I have found this 1/350 scale model which shows this item. Might be a bit tall from the picture weíve seen but it seems to back up that idea.
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Nick B

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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #318 on: June 14, 2020, 11:09:51 PM »

The pole is shown in Tarrant's book Battlecruiser Invincible in one of the photos following page 64 When the ship was being repaired after the Falklands. Quite intriguing really. What was it actually for technically?

Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #319 on: June 14, 2020, 11:21:52 PM »

We can only assume it is a protected radio mast/aerial similar to the drawing in Roberts book Battlecruisers. The Queen Mary has a similar post although situated slightly further forward than Invincible and has a starfish spread aerial array connecting directly to the top of it.
My guess is that it was a temporary modification on Invincible for the Battle of the Falkland Islands in 1914 when the foretops were removed which held the wireless aerials. It only appears in that one photo post battle at Gibraltar during her Jan to Feb 1915 refit.
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Nick B

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suffolk1928

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #320 on: June 15, 2020, 08:28:09 AM »


Very neat work on the boat deck Nick!


The tube structure looks similar to the aerial insulators seen on 1930s/WW2 era ships. The later ones seem smaller though, possibly reflecting improvements in radio technology? As you say above could be a Falklands specific modification to allow for the longer distances of communication compared to the North Sea. Someone more technically minded might educate me on this - are these tubes to protect the crew from the voltages / currents, or to protect the signal from interference?


 
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Geoff

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #321 on: June 15, 2020, 12:09:08 PM »

Pretty sure they were there to protect the crew from high voltage but surrounding it with a metal tube seems counter productive unless the inside was pretty nearly solid insulation.


I like the idea that for the Falklands the top masts were reduced as the pictures seem to confirm this albeit this seems counterproductive in some ways as the battlecrusiers were deliberatly fitted with tall topmasts to ensure long range radio communication which I would have thought would have been essential given their mission. Posibly radio technology had improved to the extent tall topmasts were no longer required hence the modification.


I believe the limiting factor in height was to clear the Forth Bridge.


Interesting


Cheers


Geoff


 
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #322 on: June 20, 2020, 01:46:08 PM »

Well... that was a pretty horrible week I never want to repeat. Apart from hardly any modelling done, I have had to contend with the park organising company going in to administration (thankfully things are looking better for the park over the last few days  :-) ) and the then the horror of having to inspect an entire aircraft after a lightning strike turned in to disaster when we found not one lightning strike but seven! The really long 12 hour shifts we had put in every day last week was very wearing especially in the pouring rain!


Anyway, I managed to receive a package from Shapeways which included the 42ft ships boat with its cradles. Itís something Iíve always struggled to make myself and in an attempt to try to finish the Invincible sometime this year I thought Iíd buy them in! Got a 36ft boat coming from New Zealand to sit on top of it too!
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Nick B

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warspite

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #323 on: June 20, 2020, 02:07:23 PM »

Will you be adding other steels or creating your own cradles to fit your frame?
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Invincible- The First Battlecruiser
« Reply #324 on: June 20, 2020, 02:43:30 PM »


Hi Warspite



The remaining cradle supports will be made to fit. As I mentioned in an earlier post I wonít be initially fitting the three steam pinnaces as per the picture of Invincible at the battle of the Falkland Islands of 1914. It would mean that I can sail the model and if I wish to add the remaining boats at a later date I can.
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Nick B

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